4 ms·

Awhile back on here someone made a good point that if you learn a language via an opposite sex partner, you generally end up learning a manner of speaking that

Awhile back on here someone made a good point that if you learn a language via an opposite sex partner, you generally end up learning a manner of speaking that is typified by that sex. So relational training does work to a point, but if you want to be a man who speaks immersively and culturally like a man (and so forth) it's worth remembering that digesting telenovelas and practicing with your Colombian girlfriend will train you in a certain direction.

mc32 5y ago
This is true, from my experience. Natives of the language will clue you in too that you’re doing it.
ngokevin 5y ago
That's a good point. It's not necessarily learning directly 100% from a partner, but more using them for feedback, reinforcement, and motivation. I'm curious what the context of that conversation was!
_jal 5y ago
I learned German as a 16-17 year-old exchange student, and haven't had cause to use it super regularly since then, aside from talking to people there. They tell me I still sound a bit like an extremely out-of-date teenager.
- willyt 5y ago
  I have friends from Europe who studied architecture in the UK and they say that after the 7 years of studying and working it takes to become an architect they would struggle a bit to have an intellectual conversation about architecture at the same level in thier native language; they didn’t have the vocabulary or an understanding of the zeitgeist in thier own country. They still spoke thier own language mostly like they had when they had just left school.
  - mmarq 5y ago
    I struggle speaking about programming, IT, mathematics and economics in my native language, because I studied and worked in the UK. I always end up using English technical words and expressions.
- DavidAdams 5y ago
  I learned Spanish immersed in the street life of working-class Venezuelans in the 1990s. Ultimately, my command of the language was good enough that native Venezuelans detected an accent, but assumed I was from a different, unfamiliar part of Latin America. When I tried to speak Spanish in Barcelona years later, folks really got a kick out of my accent and idiomatic expressions. I picked up a hitchhiker in Denmark once that had been an exchange student in New York. He spoke English with the most delightful Brooklyn accent. Just enough Bugs Bunny to be hilarious coming from a Dane.
- xwdv 5y ago
  So an old man.
- binarybanana 5y ago
  >haven't had cause to use it super regularly >I still sound a bit like an extremely out-of-date teenager. I don't think it's surprising that the way you speak hasn't changed much when you stopped using the language. Your peers were mostly teens at the time and that's the manner of speech you picked up. Had you stayed in Germany and continued to speak with peers your age it surely would have developed along the way.
yosito 5y ago
I learned Spanish with a combination of Google Translate and Spanish language music. People often tell me that I speak Spanish like I'm singing and that my grammar seems like Google Translate.
- solarmist 5y ago
  Really? I’ve never heard of anything like that before. Besides the boyfriend/girlfriend language thing. Do you hear that often? It makes sense like the feminine speaking if a guy learns from their girlfriend.
porknubbins 5y ago
This phenomenon of talking like the other gender or a cartoon character etc happens often but indicates somewhat low proficiency, even if the speaker is “fluent” in the literal sense of speaking smoothly without halting. Really learning a complex modern language (as an educated adult) involves having understaning of multiple registers like slang, casual conversation, news, formal, ceremonial, poetic language etc. So if you can’t recognize “I’m speaking like a girl” and stop doing it you have a long way to go I would argue.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
binarybanana 5y ago
Sounds like a lack of exposure to me. With enough experience you should have no trouble to tell if others are speaking in a certain manner that is associated with male, female, child, teen, boss, subordinate, etc. etc. If you can tell you should have no problem talking correctly, or at least the way you want to be perceived by others. If you can't tell the difference in how others use the language in stereotypical ways, you've basically not yet mastered the language. I know from learning Japanese a bit myself. People often say using sources like anime and manga will make you sound like an anime character, which I think is ridiculous. Even in anime there are characters that talk quite normally (in fact a lot of them do, depending on what you watch, taking into account their age, gender, who they talk to, occupation and status, etc.) and it's easy enough to tell how actual usage in real life differs in real life by using some other sources, too. But even with only anime and manga as source, just use your brain and don't talk like friggin Naruto and you'd sound pretty normal. Given enough input variety at least.

mc32 5y ago

This is true, from my experience. Natives of the language will clue you in too that you’re doing it.

ngokevin 5y ago

That's a good point. It's not necessarily learning directly 100% from a partner, but more using them for feedback, reinforcement, and motivation. I'm curious what the context of that conversation was!

_jal 5y ago

I learned German as a 16-17 year-old exchange student, and haven't had cause to use it super regularly since then, aside from talking to people there. They tell me I still sound a bit like an extremely out-of-date teenager.

willyt 5y ago
I have friends from Europe who studied architecture in the UK and they say that after the 7 years of studying and working it takes to become an architect they would struggle a bit to have an intellectual conversation about architecture at the same level in thier native language; they didn’t have the vocabulary or an understanding of the zeitgeist in thier own country. They still spoke thier own language mostly like they had when they had just left school.
- mmarq 5y ago
  I struggle speaking about programming, IT, mathematics and economics in my native language, because I studied and worked in the UK. I always end up using English technical words and expressions.
DavidAdams 5y ago
I learned Spanish immersed in the street life of working-class Venezuelans in the 1990s. Ultimately, my command of the language was good enough that native Venezuelans detected an accent, but assumed I was from a different, unfamiliar part of Latin America. When I tried to speak Spanish in Barcelona years later, folks really got a kick out of my accent and idiomatic expressions. I picked up a hitchhiker in Denmark once that had been an exchange student in New York. He spoke English with the most delightful Brooklyn accent. Just enough Bugs Bunny to be hilarious coming from a Dane.
xwdv 5y ago
So an old man.
binarybanana 5y ago
>haven't had cause to use it super regularly >I still sound a bit like an extremely out-of-date teenager. I don't think it's surprising that the way you speak hasn't changed much when you stopped using the language. Your peers were mostly teens at the time and that's the manner of speech you picked up. Had you stayed in Germany and continued to speak with peers your age it surely would have developed along the way.

yosito 5y ago

I learned Spanish with a combination of Google Translate and Spanish language music. People often tell me that I speak Spanish like I'm singing and that my grammar seems like Google Translate.

solarmist 5y ago
Really? I’ve never heard of anything like that before. Besides the boyfriend/girlfriend language thing. Do you hear that often? It makes sense like the feminine speaking if a guy learns from their girlfriend.

porknubbins 5y ago

This phenomenon of talking like the other gender or a cartoon character etc happens often but indicates somewhat low proficiency, even if the speaker is “fluent” in the literal sense of speaking smoothly without halting. Really learning a complex modern language (as an educated adult) involves having understaning of multiple registers like slang, casual conversation, news, formal, ceremonial, poetic language etc. So if you can’t recognize “I’m speaking like a girl” and stop doing it you have a long way to go I would argue.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

binarybanana 5y ago

Sounds like a lack of exposure to me. With enough experience you should have no trouble to tell if others are speaking in a certain manner that is associated with male, female, child, teen, boss, subordinate, etc. etc. If you can tell you should have no problem talking correctly, or at least the way you want to be perceived by others. If you can't tell the difference in how others use the language in stereotypical ways, you've basically not yet mastered the language. I know from learning Japanese a bit myself. People often say using sources like anime and manga will make you sound like an anime character, which I think is ridiculous. Even in anime there are characters that talk quite normally (in fact a lot of them do, depending on what you watch, taking into account their age, gender, who they talk to, occupation and status, etc.) and it's easy enough to tell how actual usage in real life differs in real life by using some other sources, too. But even with only anime and manga as source, just use your brain and don't talk like friggin Naruto and you'd sound pretty normal. Given enough input variety at least.