5 ms·

Government Hankers for Hackers

24 points by jayzee 15y ago

redthrowaway 15y ago
I don't know how the NSA plans to fight its public image of wiretaps and general malfeasance. It might be in their interest to cordon off a particular area for unclassified work and invite hackers over to get a sense of what they actually do.
- bahman2000 15y ago
  we shouldn't underestimate the number of hackers (job applicants) who think wiretaps and general malfeasance are okay.
- canistr 15y ago
  Disgree. The NSA's public image is that of an all-powerful Big Brother style agency since nobody knows anything about them publicly. There's nothing in that public image that has anything to do with 'general malfeasance' though.
nagrom 15y ago
Hm. I don't know much about American government positions, but I do know that here in the UK the government positions tend not to be very attractive. On top of working in a very constrained environment (can't use any of your own hardware, can't buy tools that are not vetted by security and IT, ridiculously out-of-date technology and low standards for development and achievements), the salary is bobbins compared to private enterprise and things take an age to get done. Almost certainly, you do not choose to take a government job to do with technology - it's the only thing that you can get. All the interesting projects seem to be outsourced to external consultancies, which can charge a fortune for a poorly-implemented system that gets delivered behind schedule. Is it any different across the Atlantic?
- gaius 15y ago
  the salary is bobbins compared to private enterprise Not true, public sector workers are better paid than private sector, and have absolute job security and generous, gold-plated pensions: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/public_sector/article6974029.ece http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sect...
  - iwwr 15y ago
    Higher pay for lower skill levels.
  - r4vik 15y ago
    maybe in general but not in software development.
  - nagrom 15y ago
    Not in technology! If you can code C++ or Java, you can get a job in a bank. If you can make electronics, look to Siemens or a multitude of smaller tech companies. The same sort of persons are sought by DSTL or Qinetiq, or even AWE. The bank may offer £40k-£80k for someone with no prior experience. The tech company may offer £40k. The government-run companies offer £20k-£35k. I know this, because I am currently looking to find a new position somewhere and I have been looking around. That Times article refers to all public sector workers, including teachers, nurses and administrators. In these professions, I believe the article. In research and development, I do not.
- canistr 15y ago
  Working in a standard government position isn't the same as working at the NSA. Similarly, working in a standard UK government position is nothing like working at GCHQ.
metrobius 15y ago
Are they looking for Lisp hackers? http://cryptome.org/0005/dod-lisp-sol.htm http://cryptome.org/0005/dod-lisp-sol.htm
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
maeon3 15y ago
Maybe we can use this to help the government bring the sentencing of website defacing crimes back down to Earth alongside well known crimes like physical stealing and vandalism. If the government wants more top-flight hackers then maybe they should understand that defacing a website is evidence of a deficient company website rather than an evil person who needs to be punished 10x normal. They will get what they want, because they will reach into your back pocket to compensate the good hackers in short supply.
dlss 15y ago
Anyone have direct experience with how sharp NSA guys are? Versus an average quant? Versus an average googler?
- iwwr 15y ago
  It's a government organization, working on a political logic. So likely, they won't be able to attract consistent quality applicants (to the extent a big tech company could). They may however be able to get ideologically-driven people (those who believe in the goodness of NSA's purpose), who are prepared to work for lower wages.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- gaius 15y ago
  I don't know if you ever watch shows like NCIS, which looks like a crime drama, up front, but then you watch a bit a realize, actually, it's sci-fi, as they use lots of technology that hasn't been invented yet, and then you watch it a bit more and realize, actually, it's about superheroes - everyone in the team is impossibly talented and capable. I somehow doubt that real Feds are like that.

24 points by jayzee 15y ago

I don't know how the NSA plans to fight its public image of wiretaps and general malfeasance. It might be in their interest to cordon off a particular area for unclassified work and invite hackers over to get a sense of what they actually do.

bahman2000 15y ago
we shouldn't underestimate the number of hackers (job applicants) who think wiretaps and general malfeasance are okay.
canistr 15y ago
Disgree. The NSA's public image is that of an all-powerful Big Brother style agency since nobody knows anything about them publicly. There's nothing in that public image that has anything to do with 'general malfeasance' though.

nagrom 15y ago

Hm. I don't know much about American government positions, but I do know that here in the UK the government positions tend not to be very attractive. On top of working in a very constrained environment (can't use any of your own hardware, can't buy tools that are not vetted by security and IT, ridiculously out-of-date technology and low standards for development and achievements), the salary is bobbins compared to private enterprise and things take an age to get done. Almost certainly, you do not choose to take a government job to do with technology - it's the only thing that you can get. All the interesting projects seem to be outsourced to external consultancies, which can charge a fortune for a poorly-implemented system that gets delivered behind schedule. Is it any different across the Atlantic?

gaius 15y ago
the salary is bobbins compared to private enterprise Not true, public sector workers are better paid than private sector, and have absolute job security and generous, gold-plated pensions: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/public_sector/article6974029.ece http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sect...
- iwwr 15y ago
  Higher pay for lower skill levels.
- r4vik 15y ago
  maybe in general but not in software development.
- nagrom 15y ago
  Not in technology! If you can code C++ or Java, you can get a job in a bank. If you can make electronics, look to Siemens or a multitude of smaller tech companies. The same sort of persons are sought by DSTL or Qinetiq, or even AWE. The bank may offer £40k-£80k for someone with no prior experience. The tech company may offer £40k. The government-run companies offer £20k-£35k. I know this, because I am currently looking to find a new position somewhere and I have been looking around. That Times article refers to all public sector workers, including teachers, nurses and administrators. In these professions, I believe the article. In research and development, I do not.
canistr 15y ago
Working in a standard government position isn't the same as working at the NSA. Similarly, working in a standard UK government position is nothing like working at GCHQ.

metrobius 15y ago

Are they looking for Lisp hackers? http://cryptome.org/0005/dod-lisp-sol.htm http://cryptome.org/0005/dod-lisp-sol.htm

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

maeon3 15y ago

Maybe we can use this to help the government bring the sentencing of website defacing crimes back down to Earth alongside well known crimes like physical stealing and vandalism. If the government wants more top-flight hackers then maybe they should understand that defacing a website is evidence of a deficient company website rather than an evil person who needs to be punished 10x normal. They will get what they want, because they will reach into your back pocket to compensate the good hackers in short supply.

dlss 15y ago

Anyone have direct experience with how sharp NSA guys are? Versus an average quant? Versus an average googler?

iwwr 15y ago
It's a government organization, working on a political logic. So likely, they won't be able to attract consistent quality applicants (to the extent a big tech company could). They may however be able to get ideologically-driven people (those who believe in the goodness of NSA's purpose), who are prepared to work for lower wages.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
gaius 15y ago
I don't know if you ever watch shows like NCIS, which looks like a crime drama, up front, but then you watch a bit a realize, actually, it's sci-fi, as they use lots of technology that hasn't been invented yet, and then you watch it a bit more and realize, actually, it's about superheroes - everyone in the team is impossibly talented and capable. I somehow doubt that real Feds are like that.