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Why hasn't New Zealand shown any interest in developing or widely deploying vaccines? I wouldn't take Kiwis for being vaccine skeptics. Seems like they just wan

Why hasn't New Zealand shown any interest in developing or widely deploying vaccines? I wouldn't take Kiwis for being vaccine skeptics. Seems like they just wanted to lock down and pretend it wasn't happening rather than finding a solution. Bizarre strategy.

lostlogin 5y ago
We have been vaccinating, and the current rate is very higher (500k in a population of 5 million in the last week). We also supply many small pacific islands and were also happy to delay so that supply could go to places with an acute need first (ie places that actually have Covid). We will be in line with the rest of the developed world very soon. > Bizarre strategy Eradication? It’s worked pretty well and the economy and population are in good shape relative to other strategies employed. Given we are close to Covid free (and aim to be again) and we are vaccinating fast, what strategy would you advocate?
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > Eradication? I meant why not even try to develop a vaccine. If other countries had not developed vaccines and eventually shared them with New Zealand what would they have done? Just sat with closed borders for the rest of time? And even when they got the vaccine they've not really bothered to get it distributed - slowest vaccination rate in the developed world. Very strange.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    Sorry - do you mean why didn't NZ develop vaccine production facilities? I don't know why you'd think it logical for two hundred odd governments to all be doing entirely independent vaccine research to combat the same disease. Funding a diverse set of approaches and salves is certainly worth it - but there's no reason all that work should necessarily be duplicated within national borders. Lastly - I'd be amazed if no New Zealander ended up contributing to vaccine development in some manner. NZ has taken an isolationist approach to the virus that seems, to all accounts, to have worked absolutely wonderfully - it's not an approach available to all nations, but they made it work for them. I live and work in Canada and I didn't leverage any of the factors available to me to jump ahead in the vaccination line - my wife and I have no children and have both been able to work fully remote... so we've similarly isolated ourselves - when my age group came up I registered and was vaccinated but I was happy to see people who have jobs that necessitate in-person interaction prioritized in front of me. It's more efficient for my health for those folks to get the vaccine first - I think NZ found itself in a similar situation, everyone (mostly) wanted to get vaccinated and the voluntary rate so far has been pretty good - it's just that other places need the vaccine more desperately than them. So long as you ignore America, where a large number of doses have expired due to political resistance - those doses of vaccine will end up going to productive ends, and wouldn't it be nice to stop the disease before we have a new wave spread out from Africa?
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    If other countries had not developed vaccines and eventually shared them with New Zealand what would they have done? Just sat with closed borders for the rest of time? You can apply that bit of logic to every bit of tech that exists. New Zealand is a tiny place, with a population less than that of a medium to large city. Why not buy something proven? > Just sat with closed borders for the rest of time? I’m quite happy with the closed borders and wish they were more tightly closed. Others can have different views - the results speak for themselves. Once things are are more settled and treatments are better managed, we can open up. > slowest vaccination rate in the developed world. Our vaccine roll out has been slow, though the current rate of administration would be one of the highest in the world so that failing is hopefully temporary. > Very strange. What do you believe New Zealand should do? I’d say that we are in a very good position relative to most.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      > What do you believe New Zealand should do? Most other western countries tried to develop vaccines as quickly as they possibly could starting in early 2020 because they thought that was the long-term solution. I get what you mean though about a small country, but it's not like New Zealand doesn't have universities as well. Waiting for someone else to hopefully solve the problem and then buy it was a gamble - I guess it paid off thankfully.
      - lostlogin 5y ago
        > Waiting for someone else to hopefully solve the problem and then buy it was a gamble - I guess it paid off thankfully. It hasn’t paid off yet. We haven’t got enough Covid in New Zealand to get the value offered by a vaccine - yet.
      - Nevermark 5y ago
        Do you advocate that every city develop its own unique vaccine? If New Zealand is paying for its vaccines then its contributing to the effort just like everyone else. The people who should develop vaccines now are the existing clusters of experts in vaccines. As in large university, government and corporate environments that have been working in that area and already have lots of experts, equipment and relevant resources and arrangements. Anything else is a long term project. Maybe RNA vaccines and other new vaccine tech will bring down the costs of vaccine development centers, and maybe the pandemic will increase the demand for more centers. I am not arguing against New Zealand developing their own in house capacity going forward. Or maybe we only need a few really good vaccines for each pandemic and there is a limit to the benefits of redundant research and production. Either way, new centers are not a quick or simple task, and not likely to happen while most experts are currently located and utilized elsewhere.

lostlogin 5y ago

We have been vaccinating, and the current rate is very higher (500k in a population of 5 million in the last week). We also supply many small pacific islands and were also happy to delay so that supply could go to places with an acute need first (ie places that actually have Covid). We will be in line with the rest of the developed world very soon. > Bizarre strategy Eradication? It’s worked pretty well and the economy and population are in good shape relative to other strategies employed. Given we are close to Covid free (and aim to be again) and we are vaccinating fast, what strategy would you advocate?

chrisseaton 5y ago
> Eradication? I meant why not even try to develop a vaccine. If other countries had not developed vaccines and eventually shared them with New Zealand what would they have done? Just sat with closed borders for the rest of time? And even when they got the vaccine they've not really bothered to get it distributed - slowest vaccination rate in the developed world. Very strange.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Sorry - do you mean why didn't NZ develop vaccine production facilities? I don't know why you'd think it logical for two hundred odd governments to all be doing entirely independent vaccine research to combat the same disease. Funding a diverse set of approaches and salves is certainly worth it - but there's no reason all that work should necessarily be duplicated within national borders. Lastly - I'd be amazed if no New Zealander ended up contributing to vaccine development in some manner. NZ has taken an isolationist approach to the virus that seems, to all accounts, to have worked absolutely wonderfully - it's not an approach available to all nations, but they made it work for them. I live and work in Canada and I didn't leverage any of the factors available to me to jump ahead in the vaccination line - my wife and I have no children and have both been able to work fully remote... so we've similarly isolated ourselves - when my age group came up I registered and was vaccinated but I was happy to see people who have jobs that necessitate in-person interaction prioritized in front of me. It's more efficient for my health for those folks to get the vaccine first - I think NZ found itself in a similar situation, everyone (mostly) wanted to get vaccinated and the voluntary rate so far has been pretty good - it's just that other places need the vaccine more desperately than them. So long as you ignore America, where a large number of doses have expired due to political resistance - those doses of vaccine will end up going to productive ends, and wouldn't it be nice to stop the disease before we have a new wave spread out from Africa?
- lostlogin 5y ago
  If other countries had not developed vaccines and eventually shared them with New Zealand what would they have done? Just sat with closed borders for the rest of time? You can apply that bit of logic to every bit of tech that exists. New Zealand is a tiny place, with a population less than that of a medium to large city. Why not buy something proven? > Just sat with closed borders for the rest of time? I’m quite happy with the closed borders and wish they were more tightly closed. Others can have different views - the results speak for themselves. Once things are are more settled and treatments are better managed, we can open up. > slowest vaccination rate in the developed world. Our vaccine roll out has been slow, though the current rate of administration would be one of the highest in the world so that failing is hopefully temporary. > Very strange. What do you believe New Zealand should do? I’d say that we are in a very good position relative to most.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > What do you believe New Zealand should do? Most other western countries tried to develop vaccines as quickly as they possibly could starting in early 2020 because they thought that was the long-term solution. I get what you mean though about a small country, but it's not like New Zealand doesn't have universities as well. Waiting for someone else to hopefully solve the problem and then buy it was a gamble - I guess it paid off thankfully.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      > Waiting for someone else to hopefully solve the problem and then buy it was a gamble - I guess it paid off thankfully. It hasn’t paid off yet. We haven’t got enough Covid in New Zealand to get the value offered by a vaccine - yet.
    - Nevermark 5y ago
      Do you advocate that every city develop its own unique vaccine? If New Zealand is paying for its vaccines then its contributing to the effort just like everyone else. The people who should develop vaccines now are the existing clusters of experts in vaccines. As in large university, government and corporate environments that have been working in that area and already have lots of experts, equipment and relevant resources and arrangements. Anything else is a long term project. Maybe RNA vaccines and other new vaccine tech will bring down the costs of vaccine development centers, and maybe the pandemic will increase the demand for more centers. I am not arguing against New Zealand developing their own in house capacity going forward. Or maybe we only need a few really good vaccines for each pandemic and there is a limit to the benefits of redundant research and production. Either way, new centers are not a quick or simple task, and not likely to happen while most experts are currently located and utilized elsewhere.