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That might be a fair criticism of a reading of this as "you should speculate in NFTs". Less so if you follow the conclusion that recent sales of NFTs are the l

That might be a fair criticism of a reading of this as "you should speculate in NFTs". Less so if you follow the conclusion that recent sales of NFTs are the latest in a long line of mass adoption/mainstreaming of Blockchain tech and investments. From that perspective, it's more comparable to telling lifelong cash holders people to begin "investing" - there's certainly survivorship bias if you're looking at specific stocks/markets, but the thing to "buy into" is the ecosystem.

arcticbull 5y ago
Who in earth is a “lifelong cash holder”
- phil_e_delphian 5y ago
  48% of the American populace, if we're talking participation in the stock market. A significantly higher percentage if we exclude those whose only holdings are in opt-out company-sponsored 401k plans. [0] More than 5% of US households are entirely "unbanked," so literally cash only. [1] I hope that fills in the knowledge gaps, so you can now engage with the content presented to you. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/25/more-than-half-of-u-s-households-have-some-investment-in-the-stock-market/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/25/more-than-h... [1] https://www.fdic.gov/analysis/household-survey/index.html https://www.fdic.gov/analysis/household-survey/index.html
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Hold on haha, put away your snark. Just because someone doesn’t participate in the stock market doesn’t mean they’re “cash holders for life” - people do participate in real estate and accrue other assets. I would be stunned if those 48% of people were just stuffing cash in couch cushions. Not to mention why would we exclude 401(k)s? 57% of Americans don’t have a spare $500. [1] This sounds a suspicious amount like 48% + 5%. Give or take. The un-banked aren’t unbanked because bank accounts are inaccessible. They’ve got nothing to put in them. They’re not “lifelong cash holders” they’re broke. Cash non-holders if you will. So basically anyone with money invests it, and most people are hand-to-mouth broke. What exactly are they saving or investing? This is a fundamental social policy issue and not something you’re going to solve with blockchain magic. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-500-emergency-expense/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-50...
    - phil_e_delphian 5y ago
      Yes, people with no money have trouble investing money, I'm not sure where I stated otherwise. But sure, let's continue down the rabbit hole of analyzing a group I referenced off-hand for the sake of a hypothetical example. wrt my comment about 401ks - they are often opt-out these days in part due to regulatory maneuvering on the part of the C-suite to protect their own benefits (e.g. safe harbor plans). Including folks with a 401k as "participants" in the stock market vastly overstates their actual investment activity and participation. More telling of actual participation is that 86% of households in the US don't own any individual stocks - most people with a 401k have it invested in whatever the default managed fund is. Convincing some portion of that 86% to participate on their own in the stock market is the parallel I was drawing - those with resources to participate in a financial system, which has lower barriers to entry than they might anticipate. "This is a fundamental social policy issue and not something you’re going to solve with blockchain magic." This conclusion is so orthogonal to the literal content, and point of my original comment that I can only recommend you reread it and start from there.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        I’m only discussing the idea there’s such a thing as a “lifetime cash holder” who holds any material quantity of their net worth in an asset that says it depreciates on the tin.
        phil_e_delphian 5y ago
        Yes, and we've established that these people exist - aside from the info you've been presented, it should be pretty clear, anecdotally, if you have spent time with communities of first generation immigrants. For example, I grew up with close friends whose parents were Bulgarian immigrants. Their parents had "good" jobs (dba, generic in-house IT) and were not hurting from money, but: they did not purchase homes, did not invest their money, and literally kept stacks of cash in the home. Your personal experience and values are not necessarily representative of every other group in your country.
- pope_meat 5y ago
  The poor's, like me.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Don’t poor folks not have money to invest?
    - pope_meat 5y ago
      Bingo. 50% of us are paycheck to paycheck, ain't much to invest when 70% of your income goes to the landlord...you know, to further invest.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Yeah I’m sorry that’s really tough. Fingers crossed for ya things will get better.

arcticbull 5y ago

Who in earth is a “lifelong cash holder”

phil_e_delphian 5y ago
48% of the American populace, if we're talking participation in the stock market. A significantly higher percentage if we exclude those whose only holdings are in opt-out company-sponsored 401k plans. [0] More than 5% of US households are entirely "unbanked," so literally cash only. [1] I hope that fills in the knowledge gaps, so you can now engage with the content presented to you. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/25/more-than-half-of-u-s-households-have-some-investment-in-the-stock-market/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/25/more-than-h... [1] https://www.fdic.gov/analysis/household-survey/index.html https://www.fdic.gov/analysis/household-survey/index.html
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Hold on haha, put away your snark. Just because someone doesn’t participate in the stock market doesn’t mean they’re “cash holders for life” - people do participate in real estate and accrue other assets. I would be stunned if those 48% of people were just stuffing cash in couch cushions. Not to mention why would we exclude 401(k)s? 57% of Americans don’t have a spare $500. [1] This sounds a suspicious amount like 48% + 5%. Give or take. The un-banked aren’t unbanked because bank accounts are inaccessible. They’ve got nothing to put in them. They’re not “lifelong cash holders” they’re broke. Cash non-holders if you will. So basically anyone with money invests it, and most people are hand-to-mouth broke. What exactly are they saving or investing? This is a fundamental social policy issue and not something you’re going to solve with blockchain magic. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-500-emergency-expense/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-50...
  - phil_e_delphian 5y ago
    Yes, people with no money have trouble investing money, I'm not sure where I stated otherwise. But sure, let's continue down the rabbit hole of analyzing a group I referenced off-hand for the sake of a hypothetical example. wrt my comment about 401ks - they are often opt-out these days in part due to regulatory maneuvering on the part of the C-suite to protect their own benefits (e.g. safe harbor plans). Including folks with a 401k as "participants" in the stock market vastly overstates their actual investment activity and participation. More telling of actual participation is that 86% of households in the US don't own any individual stocks - most people with a 401k have it invested in whatever the default managed fund is. Convincing some portion of that 86% to participate on their own in the stock market is the parallel I was drawing - those with resources to participate in a financial system, which has lower barriers to entry than they might anticipate. "This is a fundamental social policy issue and not something you’re going to solve with blockchain magic." This conclusion is so orthogonal to the literal content, and point of my original comment that I can only recommend you reread it and start from there.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      I’m only discussing the idea there’s such a thing as a “lifetime cash holder” who holds any material quantity of their net worth in an asset that says it depreciates on the tin.
      - phil_e_delphian 5y ago
        Yes, and we've established that these people exist - aside from the info you've been presented, it should be pretty clear, anecdotally, if you have spent time with communities of first generation immigrants. For example, I grew up with close friends whose parents were Bulgarian immigrants. Their parents had "good" jobs (dba, generic in-house IT) and were not hurting from money, but: they did not purchase homes, did not invest their money, and literally kept stacks of cash in the home. Your personal experience and values are not necessarily representative of every other group in your country.
pope_meat 5y ago
The poor's, like me.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Don’t poor folks not have money to invest?
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    Bingo. 50% of us are paycheck to paycheck, ain't much to invest when 70% of your income goes to the landlord...you know, to further invest.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Yeah I’m sorry that’s really tough. Fingers crossed for ya things will get better.