5 ms·
An interesting bit of history. A small nit: The assertion that secrecy, i.e. absence of information was the key espionage tactic at play here is not quite righ
by jt2190 5y ago
An interesting bit of history.
A small nit: The assertion that secrecy, i.e. absence of information was the key espionage tactic at play here is not quite right. Instead, the allies put a massive amount of effort into misinformation.
Going from memory… In his book, The Longest Day, Cornelius Ryan reported that the Germans knew the location, the approximate dates, and had even determined what signal would be sent to the French Resistance (a particular stanza in a poem read in a radio broadcast.) Getting higher ups in the German apparatus to believe that they had figured it all out was the main failure.
- Spooky23 5y agoThe key piece of info was that the Germans had details of a few plans, some of which were engineered to appeal to what the Germans wanted to hear. The Normandy landing in many ways was a dumb place to land. The allies also had the benefit of experience in the Pacific. They knew that once you had a beachhead, victory was a matter of stuffing enough troops over the line and slogging through attrition. There were more American replacements than Germans.
- mandevil 5y agoThe US unit with the most experience in amphibious assaults in WW2 was in Europe: between Operations Hammer, Menace, Appearance, Ironclad, Jubilee, Torch, Husky, Avalanche, Accolade and Shingle by the time that Overlord came around there was an enormous amount of accumulated experience in how to do amphibious assaults without need to consult the people in the PTO. The US Army borrowed a pre-war manual from the Marine Corps, but that was about the extent of it. As for the value of attrition, it seems to me it was the Germans who chose attritional warfare not the Allies. They fought a largely attritional battle, then ran like hell the moment it turned to maneuver.
- worik 5y agoMy father spent a chunk of the war in the Pacific with the New Zealand forces. The Americans had a pattern: bombardment, storm beaches, fight fight fight.... The New Zealand forces used this to their advantage. When they had to take an Island they would row ashore in the night with some howitzers, sneak up the beech. They knew where their enemy camped, relative to the beech, where they were waiting for teh naval bombardment to start, then stop, whence they planned to go down to the beech and machine gun the American troops coming ashore. The New Zealand forces would already be ashore, dug in, and wake their enemy up with howitzers from the shore based dug in positions. All his life he had a contempt for American culture based on that experience. "They depend so much on technology" he would say. Yes. They (the Americans) had a lot of experience. But they were not the best.
- lostlogin 5y ago> Overlord came around there was an enormous amount of accumulated experience in how to do amphibious assaults without need to consult the people in the PTO. The failure to take armour has been blamed as a cause of the huge casualties the US took. However the weather was terrible, so it might have exacerbated the problem.
- Taniwha 5y agoYes it's worth remembering that by the time D-Day happened the Allies had already invaded Europe (twice really: Sicily and then Italy proper) and were slogging their way northward, dragging key German divisions away from the Eastern front and France Having fought across North Africa and then just fought thru Monte Casino my dad, also a kiwi, at least once noted that those d-day guys were "johnny come latelies" :-)
- KineticLensman 5y ago> In his book, The Longest Day, Cornelius Ryan reported that the Germans knew the location, the approximate dates A lot of the German high command was convinced that the landings would be at the Pas de Calais (the shortest crossing). The Allies did a lot to support this view, including using Gen Patton as the commander of the fake army that would conduct this crossing. Even after the Normandy landings, the Germans were very reluctant to commit the forces that were ready for the 'fake' invasion (which of course never happened).
- lostlogin 5y agoOne I liked: Earlier in the war the British threw the Germans off by dumping a dead homeless man’s body off the Spanish coast, dressed as an officer. Documents on him were designed to cause troop movements that benefitted the allies, and it was corrected anticipated that these would be shared with the Germans. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]