3 ms·

I'd be curious to hear peoples thoughts if they would subject themselves to this sort of professional board and licensing for software. There's clearly a pre-de

by adamhp 5y ago

I'd be curious to hear peoples thoughts if they would subject themselves to this sort of professional board and licensing for software. There's clearly a pre-determined set of information and skills that are fundamental enough to be tested, but it is also fairly creative and subjective at the end of the day.

rhacker 5y ago
With medicine there are probably like 4 ways to treat a bullet wound. If you go too far outside of that you're probably not a good doctor. With software you can write a TODO app with a million lines of code or 7.
- dleslie 5y ago
  ... Every serious trauma is unique and challenging in its own way.
hkt 5y ago
Realistically, I think I'd not be allowed to practice with that kind of system. I suspect there's an entire class of programmer (maybe this is the dev vs eng distinction the article refers to) which would be excluded by a system like this. Fundamentally though I think that system of high priests and laypeople who are barely allowed to code at all can't be sustained. I strongly suspect all professions will eventually require a little programming, and certification will be hard for those cases.
smolder 5y ago
I would likely take issue with whatever criteria people chose for judging someone's software engineering ability. Creating the best performing system is rarely anyone's goal (not that performance should be discounted,) they want to make something with the hard to quantify qualities of robustness, scalability, maintainability and expandability, to different degrees. They also often want to use languages or frameworks (or supporting software like databases) based on what boils down to fashion. Often the most desirable quality for candidates is an ability to learn and leverage new tools, given varied and shifting standards of good design, which again is hard to quantify.
6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
Given the amount of people with CS degrees who fail the most basic interviews, it would be hard to set something good up. I assume universities are trying to solve the same problems as the hypothetical board setting up this test. That, and the field moving so quickly and being so broad. I interview for ML. I assume interviews for front end are extremely different.
wheelinsupial 5y ago
Disclaimer: I’m educated as a technologist not an engineer in Canada. This exists in Canada for some areas of software development that falls under the requirements of being a licensed software engineer. Many people, including CS graduates in Canada, think it’s ridiculous. The requirement for certification is pretty strict in that you need a computer engineering undergrad degree or a degree in software engineering from an accredited program. This is probably how most people would be accredited, but there are some other ways too. All of them, as far as I can gather, require formal educational credentials. You then need to go through a formal apprenticeship while working under someone who is licensed. It’s probably an 8 year process in total. Further to that, there is a limitation on what you can practice. There are different disciplines (e.g., mechanical, civil, electrical) and there are fields and scopes of practice within each of those disciplines. What this results in is someone who is licensed in, for example, embedded systems wouldn’t then be able to go and work on websites or back end databases. The field is further divided into technologists and technicians that require less education than engineers and have much less autonomy and scope of authority.

by adamhp 5y ago

rhacker 5y ago

With medicine there are probably like 4 ways to treat a bullet wound. If you go too far outside of that you're probably not a good doctor. With software you can write a TODO app with a million lines of code or 7.

dleslie 5y ago
... Every serious trauma is unique and challenging in its own way.

hkt 5y ago

Realistically, I think I'd not be allowed to practice with that kind of system. I suspect there's an entire class of programmer (maybe this is the dev vs eng distinction the article refers to) which would be excluded by a system like this. Fundamentally though I think that system of high priests and laypeople who are barely allowed to code at all can't be sustained. I strongly suspect all professions will eventually require a little programming, and certification will be hard for those cases.

smolder 5y ago

I would likely take issue with whatever criteria people chose for judging someone's software engineering ability. Creating the best performing system is rarely anyone's goal (not that performance should be discounted,) they want to make something with the hard to quantify qualities of robustness, scalability, maintainability and expandability, to different degrees. They also often want to use languages or frameworks (or supporting software like databases) based on what boils down to fashion. Often the most desirable quality for candidates is an ability to learn and leverage new tools, given varied and shifting standards of good design, which again is hard to quantify.

6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago

Given the amount of people with CS degrees who fail the most basic interviews, it would be hard to set something good up. I assume universities are trying to solve the same problems as the hypothetical board setting up this test. That, and the field moving so quickly and being so broad. I interview for ML. I assume interviews for front end are extremely different.

wheelinsupial 5y ago

Disclaimer: I’m educated as a technologist not an engineer in Canada. This exists in Canada for some areas of software development that falls under the requirements of being a licensed software engineer. Many people, including CS graduates in Canada, think it’s ridiculous. The requirement for certification is pretty strict in that you need a computer engineering undergrad degree or a degree in software engineering from an accredited program. This is probably how most people would be accredited, but there are some other ways too. All of them, as far as I can gather, require formal educational credentials. You then need to go through a formal apprenticeship while working under someone who is licensed. It’s probably an 8 year process in total. Further to that, there is a limitation on what you can practice. There are different disciplines (e.g., mechanical, civil, electrical) and there are fields and scopes of practice within each of those disciplines. What this results in is someone who is licensed in, for example, embedded systems wouldn’t then be able to go and work on websites or back end databases. The field is further divided into technologists and technicians that require less education than engineers and have much less autonomy and scope of authority.