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I'm more excited about synthesized milk: https://www.smh.com.au/business/entrepreneurship/csiro-brews-milk-for-animal-free-dairy-startup-20210726-p58cwv.html h

I'm more excited about synthesized milk: https://www.smh.com.au/business/entrepreneurship/csiro-brews-milk-for-animal-free-dairy-startup-20210726-p58cwv.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/entrepreneurship/csiro-brews... I've lifted weights recreationally for 20 years and find most of the dogma and heated debate about dairy products fascinating. It's not uncommon to see a fitness enthusiast warning about the dangers of dairy while simultaneously selling nutrition supplements derived from milk as part of a multilevel marketing scheme. At this point, I think everyone should have the dignity to believe what they want to believe. But personally, I consider all milk substitutes to be a waste of time unless someone has a specific reason (like lactose intolerance) to drink them. Some other truths that people love to debate for some reason: yes dairy is horrible for the environment so it is best to eat it in moderation if you aren't exercising (best to get to it soon though). Yes diary is always more ethical than meat. Yes most nutrition advice post-WWII is propaganda put out to bolster certain big agriculture companies. Yes high cholesterol in the body probably has more to do with genetics and other risk factors than how much cholesterol is consumed. The fastest way to get healthy that I know of is to go on the gallon of milk a day (GOMAD) diet and hit the gym 3 times per week for 45 minutes or less with no cardio. This is 1970s "technology" but it works.. astoundingly well. I used it in my 20s with great results. The rest of the hype, eh, I try to tune it out. Avoid dairy to save the planet, that's great. Avoid dairy to save your health and.. your health will probably decline because it's usually something else like poor work-life balance or a sedentary lifestyle that's the culprit.

rsynnott 5y ago
> Yes diary is always more ethical than meat How do you figure that?
- crackercrews 5y ago
  Because you don't have to kill the animal to get it?
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    To give milk, a cow has to be pregnant about once a year. So unless you want a geometric expansion of cows, you're going to be killing quite a lot of calves.
    - crackercrews 5y ago
      Fair point. I guess the question is whether those calves would have been born/slaughtered for another reason (meat/leather), or whether milk demand is the only reason they exist.
      - rsynnott 5y ago
        The latter, in modern farming. They'll be used for meat and leather and so on anyway, but as a byproduct; many calves will be killed within days of birth, in many countries on the farm rather than in a proper facility. In a hypothetical world where people didn't want meat or leather at all, but wanted current volumes of milk or anything like them, you'd still be producing and slaughtering a lot of calves.
    - zackmorris 5y ago
      Thank you, I didn't know that so I learned something today! This seems like quite a ridiculous problem since surely hormones could induce lactation. I did a quick search and stumbled onto this from 1994 where they had cows that lactated without being pregnant: https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/milking-the-cattle-31995 https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/milking-the-cattle-31995 So milk without killing calves has been available for quite some time. This probably coincided with bans on hormones in milk though (which I was all for) that happened in the 90s and early 2000s maybe? But people were never given the full story. Maybe this could be a long-term sustainability/awareness project. Give cows hormones to simulate pregnancy and birth, then stop and sell the hormone-free milk for as many months as milking typically lasts.
      - rsynnott 5y ago
        This is definitely something that has been and continues to be investigated, and if it was workable the industry would definitely be keen on it. As of now it’s experimental, tho.
oftenwrong 5y ago
Strength is only one aspect of healthy. Another is longevity, and yet another is avoiding illness. I.e. do powerlifters live longer? Are they less likely to develop cancers? Furthermore, being healthy in your 20s is like not having engine problems in a brand new car.

rsynnott 5y ago

> Yes diary is always more ethical than meat How do you figure that?

crackercrews 5y ago
Because you don't have to kill the animal to get it?
- rsynnott 5y ago
  To give milk, a cow has to be pregnant about once a year. So unless you want a geometric expansion of cows, you're going to be killing quite a lot of calves.
  - crackercrews 5y ago
    Fair point. I guess the question is whether those calves would have been born/slaughtered for another reason (meat/leather), or whether milk demand is the only reason they exist.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      The latter, in modern farming. They'll be used for meat and leather and so on anyway, but as a byproduct; many calves will be killed within days of birth, in many countries on the farm rather than in a proper facility. In a hypothetical world where people didn't want meat or leather at all, but wanted current volumes of milk or anything like them, you'd still be producing and slaughtering a lot of calves.
  - zackmorris 5y ago
    Thank you, I didn't know that so I learned something today! This seems like quite a ridiculous problem since surely hormones could induce lactation. I did a quick search and stumbled onto this from 1994 where they had cows that lactated without being pregnant: https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/milking-the-cattle-31995 https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/milking-the-cattle-31995 So milk without killing calves has been available for quite some time. This probably coincided with bans on hormones in milk though (which I was all for) that happened in the 90s and early 2000s maybe? But people were never given the full story. Maybe this could be a long-term sustainability/awareness project. Give cows hormones to simulate pregnancy and birth, then stop and sell the hormone-free milk for as many months as milking typically lasts.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      This is definitely something that has been and continues to be investigated, and if it was workable the industry would definitely be keen on it. As of now it’s experimental, tho.

oftenwrong 5y ago

Strength is only one aspect of healthy. Another is longevity, and yet another is avoiding illness. I.e. do powerlifters live longer? Are they less likely to develop cancers? Furthermore, being healthy in your 20s is like not having engine problems in a brand new car.