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> But is that system good? Is it innovative or useful for a recommendation be constantly asking you to re-watch videos from your history? Is that actually fulfi

> But is that system good? Is it innovative or useful for a recommendation be constantly asking you to re-watch videos from your history? Is that actually fulfilling any of the promises that the recommendation system was sold on? No, not really. I definitely wouldn't call that a 'smart' system. It seems to work well enough for Netflix. I probably end up watching stuff in the "Watch it Again" list almost as often as I do anything else.

danShumway 5y ago
That's what I mean: it works in the sense that it does the strict job it was designed to do. It definitely works, strictly speaking. But is it working in a way that gives you any value? Are you happy that you're just clicking "Watch it Again", or did you want a system that would actually find new shows for you and let you know about new release that you'd be likely to enjoy? If you are happy with that, then from an engineering perspective, was it necessary to build a complicated algorithm to show you a "Watch it Again" list, or could we have used a single database query and about a hundred lines of code instead? There are lots of simple heuristics to make a recommendation engine have better success rates. I can build a pretty good movie recommendation engine by just recommending every single Marvel movie that comes out: they're already popular so on average people will click on them. That's not hard. But that's also not the promise that we were sold when companies started proposing/building these systems into their products.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  Specifically regarding Netflix, they show me several recommendation lists, based on stuff I've watched before, e.g. because I watched 30 Rock, they recommend I watch Schitts Creek. They also have "Trending Now," "New Releases," and "Popular on Netflix," but I'm not sure how personalized those recommendations are. There's also a "Watch Something" feature, where they show you things they think you might want to watch, but just start playing the episode and make you reject the selection if you don't want to watch it. But, like I said, almost as often as I end up picking from any of those, I end up picking from stuff I've previously watched, which I'm not sure actually is anything more than a database query and ~100 LoC. Given the state of Netflix's catalog, I think these recommendations are okay. If I want better recommendations, I can always go through and "like" some more things that I enjoy. I do wish they had better discoverability beyond these preconstructed lists. They definitely don't make it easy to search. But, here's another question back: why do they need a great recommendation engine? All they really want is for me to not cancel my subscription. And, all they have to do to accomplish that is show me that there are things I might want to watch that I probably haven't seen yet, which I think they accomplish fairly well.
  - danShumway 5y ago
    > why do they need a great recommendation engine? That is a great question. For me personally, that's not a great recommendation engine, I feel like that could be replaced by a better history view. But maybe that's just me, if you like that system, then I guess it's working for you. However, in asking that question, you've now circled right around to making the article's point again: > My complaint is that none of the above had anything to do with hoarding my personal information. > Amazon shows a box that suggests I might want to re-buy certain kinds of consumable products that I've bought in the past. This is useful too, and requires no profiling other than remembering the transactions we've had with each other in the past, which they kinda have to do anyway. And again, everybody wins. So, your question is good. Why do they need a super-detailed recommendation engine if what they have works? If it genuinely does work for you, then I guess they don't! And the obvious follow-up question is, why do they need to track anything beyond what movies you've watched in order to make that system work? Why does Netflix need to obsessively track when you pause, which scenes you skip, how long you mouse over a movie recommendation -- if ultimately, the best recommendation engine they have, and the one you're happiest with has nothing to do with that information? From the article again: > You tracked me everywhere I go, logging it forever, begging for someone to steal your database, desperately fearing that some new EU privacy regulation might destroy your business... for this?

danShumway 5y ago

That's what I mean: it works in the sense that it does the strict job it was designed to do. It definitely works, strictly speaking. But is it working in a way that gives you any value? Are you happy that you're just clicking "Watch it Again", or did you want a system that would actually find new shows for you and let you know about new release that you'd be likely to enjoy? If you are happy with that, then from an engineering perspective, was it necessary to build a complicated algorithm to show you a "Watch it Again" list, or could we have used a single database query and about a hundred lines of code instead? There are lots of simple heuristics to make a recommendation engine have better success rates. I can build a pretty good movie recommendation engine by just recommending every single Marvel movie that comes out: they're already popular so on average people will click on them. That's not hard. But that's also not the promise that we were sold when companies started proposing/building these systems into their products.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
Specifically regarding Netflix, they show me several recommendation lists, based on stuff I've watched before, e.g. because I watched 30 Rock, they recommend I watch Schitts Creek. They also have "Trending Now," "New Releases," and "Popular on Netflix," but I'm not sure how personalized those recommendations are. There's also a "Watch Something" feature, where they show you things they think you might want to watch, but just start playing the episode and make you reject the selection if you don't want to watch it. But, like I said, almost as often as I end up picking from any of those, I end up picking from stuff I've previously watched, which I'm not sure actually is anything more than a database query and ~100 LoC. Given the state of Netflix's catalog, I think these recommendations are okay. If I want better recommendations, I can always go through and "like" some more things that I enjoy. I do wish they had better discoverability beyond these preconstructed lists. They definitely don't make it easy to search. But, here's another question back: why do they need a great recommendation engine? All they really want is for me to not cancel my subscription. And, all they have to do to accomplish that is show me that there are things I might want to watch that I probably haven't seen yet, which I think they accomplish fairly well.
- danShumway 5y ago
  > why do they need a great recommendation engine? That is a great question. For me personally, that's not a great recommendation engine, I feel like that could be replaced by a better history view. But maybe that's just me, if you like that system, then I guess it's working for you. However, in asking that question, you've now circled right around to making the article's point again: > My complaint is that none of the above had anything to do with hoarding my personal information. > Amazon shows a box that suggests I might want to re-buy certain kinds of consumable products that I've bought in the past. This is useful too, and requires no profiling other than remembering the transactions we've had with each other in the past, which they kinda have to do anyway. And again, everybody wins. So, your question is good. Why do they need a super-detailed recommendation engine if what they have works? If it genuinely does work for you, then I guess they don't! And the obvious follow-up question is, why do they need to track anything beyond what movies you've watched in order to make that system work? Why does Netflix need to obsessively track when you pause, which scenes you skip, how long you mouse over a movie recommendation -- if ultimately, the best recommendation engine they have, and the one you're happiest with has nothing to do with that information? From the article again: > You tracked me everywhere I go, logging it forever, begging for someone to steal your database, desperately fearing that some new EU privacy regulation might destroy your business... for this?