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Also, w.r.t water consumption, cows still put back in some water to the cycle via peeing and pooping, something that several studies I've seen don't account for

Also, w.r.t water consumption, cows still put back in some water to the cycle via peeing and pooping, something that several studies I've seen don't account for. Trees don't really give back water, they just consume. My takeaway is that, for water consumption/concerns, alternative milks aren't really beneficial, especially as you mention in California. I still do believe they have other benefits though (land use, CO2, nutrition, etc.) which is why I keep buying them.

Ambolia 5y ago
Regarding CO2, seems like cows would only produce as much as they consume from feed that first captured that CO2 from the atmosphere, so if you are sourcing local and not shipping feed / cows around seems like it should be close to zero?
- ZoomerCretin 5y ago
  Cows produce huge quantities of Methane, which has a GWP of 40. They are a huge contributor to climate change.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    If you are growing the same quantity of cattle then their methane in the atmosphere would be at steady state, not growing and therefore not contributing to change. If you grow more cattle then more methane would be produced. On the other hand, isn’t cattle production displacing wild ruminants? If we stop producing cattle, will nature fill in with bison, deer, moose, etc? It's possible that methane from cattle isn't any higher than methane from the wild ruminants they replaced. Had this been studied?
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      >their methane in the atmosphere would be at steady state, not growing and therefore not contributing to change. Assuming that methane is removed from the atmosphere by something? AFAIK methane doesnt get consumed by anything natural, so it should just be growing in an absolute sense as long as total cows (and other producers) are above 0
      - heisenzombie 5y ago
        No, methane degrades in the atmosphere with a half-life of around 9 years.
mikepurvis 5y ago
Trees don't "consume" water any more than any other citizen of the natural environment does. The real challenge with trees is that they have a lot of knock-on effects—mostly beneficial—which are pretty hard to quantify, like the effect of root systems in soil, preventing erosion and promoting water retention.

Ambolia 5y ago

Regarding CO2, seems like cows would only produce as much as they consume from feed that first captured that CO2 from the atmosphere, so if you are sourcing local and not shipping feed / cows around seems like it should be close to zero?

ZoomerCretin 5y ago
Cows produce huge quantities of Methane, which has a GWP of 40. They are a huge contributor to climate change.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  If you are growing the same quantity of cattle then their methane in the atmosphere would be at steady state, not growing and therefore not contributing to change. If you grow more cattle then more methane would be produced. On the other hand, isn’t cattle production displacing wild ruminants? If we stop producing cattle, will nature fill in with bison, deer, moose, etc? It's possible that methane from cattle isn't any higher than methane from the wild ruminants they replaced. Had this been studied?
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    >their methane in the atmosphere would be at steady state, not growing and therefore not contributing to change. Assuming that methane is removed from the atmosphere by something? AFAIK methane doesnt get consumed by anything natural, so it should just be growing in an absolute sense as long as total cows (and other producers) are above 0
    - heisenzombie 5y ago
      No, methane degrades in the atmosphere with a half-life of around 9 years.

mikepurvis 5y ago

Trees don't "consume" water any more than any other citizen of the natural environment does. The real challenge with trees is that they have a lot of knock-on effects—mostly beneficial—which are pretty hard to quantify, like the effect of root systems in soil, preventing erosion and promoting water retention.