4 ms·
Normally I don't like indulging in pedantic things like this, but I think I'm on-board with "we shouldn't call the stuff that doesn't come out of mammals 'Milk?
by jrm4 5y ago
Normally I don't like indulging in pedantic things like this, but I think I'm on-board with "we shouldn't call the stuff that doesn't come out of mammals 'Milk?'"
It just doesn't fit with how we seem to most often use words in foods et al, e.g: We call it 'egg substitute' or 'krab' when the thing is not the thing.
The only outlier I can think of here is things like 'Root Beer' and 'Ginger Ale' and we know why those are that way.
- sideshowb 5y agohttps://xkcd.com/1483/ https://xkcd.com/1483/
- greenpizza13 5y agoGiven that the title of the post is "Alternative Milks" I think the general usage of "milk" is simply a shorthand for "alternative milks" which would be synonymous with your want to call them milk substitutes.
- caturopath 5y agoWe've been using "soy milk" for the better part of a century and we all know what it means. I don't see how this isn't more like "root beer" now, even if the etymological story isn't quite the same. (edit: see below, attested for many centuries -- 'milk' as non-animal milks.)
- rsynnott 5y agoAnd “almond milk” for almost a thousand years (it was big in the Middle Ages because it was then not acceptable amongst many Christian and Muslim communities to use milk during fasting periods).
- caturopath 5y agoIt was called 'almond milk' (or the equivalent in Old English) at the time?
- technothrasher 5y agoYep. Here's a medieval recipe for butter made from almond milk (from http://www.godecookery.com/mtrans/mtrans54.html http://www.godecookery.com/mtrans/mtrans54.html): Botere of almand melk. Tak þikke almound melk & boyle it, & as it boyleth cast yn a litel wyn or vynegre, & þan do it on a caneuas & lat þe whey renne out. & þan gadere it vp with þyn hondes & hang it vp a myle wey, & ley it after in cold water, & serue it forth.
- AlotOfReading 5y agoYes, almond milk was a popular substitute for regular milk in recipes and meals on days when dairy consumption was forbidden. [1] has a modern cook recreating some of these recipes, but I've seen similar recipes in older (~10-11th century) stuff from the Islamic world, where it wasn't merely a substitute. The word milk in general could refer to any dairy-like liquid though. According to [2] that usage is attested from as early as ~1200. [1] https://historydollop.com/2016/11/09/almond-milk-the-medieval-way/ https://historydollop.com/2016/11/09/almond-milk-the-medieva... [2] https://www.etymonline.com/word/milk#etymonline_v_16158 https://www.etymonline.com/word/milk#etymonline_v_16158
- rsynnott 5y agoHere's an example in what I think is Middle English: https://www.reddit.com/r/medieval/comments/gu70rh/the_recipe_for_the_rice_pudding/ https://www.reddit.com/r/medieval/comments/gu70rh/the_recipe... Almond milk seems to have shown up by the 12th century, but Old English was mostly dying by then.
- nerdponx 5y agoA lot of vegan restaurants, blogs, etc. spell it "mylk".
- jrm4 5y agoAfter first cringe, I like this. The same as the "krab" thing. (Anyone else colloquially say "KAY-rab" to audio-distinguish?)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- armoredkitten 5y agoLet's see, how about mincemeat, mountain oysters, pork butt, Welsh rabbit, prairie oyster, black pudding, sweetbreads, and (the most delicious of the bunch) beavertails. There are plenty of names of foods that do not at all describe the actual ingredients in them, and people get along just fine. Nobody believes almonds have tiny mammary glands that are being milked. As long as you clearly label the source ingredient (almond, soy, oat, etc.) for reasons of preference and allergens, nobody's getting confused here.
- jrm4 5y agoRight, perfectly reasonable. I'm still sort of on the fence. I guess where I would respond though is: Most of what you're talking about are singular rare-ish exceptions. We're talking about a very common staple here (which means, yes, there will be confusion of some sort, perhaps in baking?) I think my reasoning here is, we're not calling margarine "plant butter," we're not talking about "tapioca/potato eggs" (had to look that one up.) Overall, even, I feel like things would go smoother if we used some other word, e.g. I know "Silk" is trademarked, but something along those lines.
- vineyardmike 5y ago> we're not calling margarine "plant butter, I know people that just call this "butter" so idk if i follow. Also no one complains about "Peanut Butter" being not butter :)
- jrm4 5y agoIn my experience, people call the dairy stuff "butter" and the plant substitute "margarine" rather consistently. But yeah, good point about the peanut butter.
- kazoomonger 5y agoI don't have an deep source on this, but it looks like this is not something new. https://www.etymonline.com/word/milk https://www.etymonline.com/word/milk says: > Of milk-like plant juices or saps from c. 1200.
- kjkjadksj 5y agoIts as ridiculous as when I see a package in the store labelled “beefless beef.” Why not just call it what it is, which is plant based ground chuck. Beefless beef sounds like something from rick and morty. Lots of things have some references to chicken too.
- jrm4 5y agowait, chuck doesn't mean meat? I'm even more confused now.
- antisthenes 5y agoIt's not a pedantic thing. Nut/Seed drinks are not milks. They're just as much milk as coffee is tea and apple juice is vodka. It's absolute nonsense to call it milk, just because some "clever" marketing department somewhere decided to name it such in an effort to peddle their product more effectively.
- vineyardmike 5y ago> coffee is tea and apple juice is vodka You brew coffee and you brew tea. Tea is plant products brewed in hot water, and coffee is... a plant product in hot water? We call all sorts of soups soup even though they contain different ingredients, so why not Milk?
- antisthenes 5y ago> We call all sorts of soups soup even though they contain different ingredients, so why not Milk? Because soup is any kind of liquid food. If you had made a soup that was made entirely of Milk, it would simply still be soup. Milk is specifically produced by mammary glands of...a mammal. Not sure why I have to explain how words and definitions work on HN, but there it is.
- adrian_b 5y agoNot only milky liquids are called "milk", but oily liquids are called "oil" e.g. fish oil (etymologically oil refers only to oil extracted from olives, but already Pliny the Elder used the name "fish oil" and many other oil names for oils extracted from other things than olives) and buttery substances are called "butter", e.g. cocoa butter, even if the bu- from butter means cow (in Greek).
- jrm4 5y agoSure. I just find it perhaps interesting that e.g. we went out of our way to invent the word "margarine."