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The time I spent in virtual worlds as a child remains one of the most cherished experiences of my life. They brought me happiness at times when nothing else did

The time I spent in virtual worlds as a child remains one of the most cherished experiences of my life. They brought me happiness at times when nothing else did. They stoked my imagination and gave me a sense of wonder. They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers. It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult.

tgv 5y ago
Reading did that for me. > They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers Three hours a week isn't much, but it doesn't have to be gaming to connect with people of your age, isn't it? > It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult. I don't think it's what worries the Chinese government. Or me. I'm quite sure that e.g. a 1 hr/day limit would be a good thing. You can say "parents", but at one point children stop listening. Then what do you do?
- brundolf 5y ago
  > Reading did that for me. Reading decidedly did not do that for me. I didn't have the attention span for/interest in most books. > but it doesn't have to be gaming to connect with people of your age, isn't it? Socializing was always difficult for me. Gaming was one of the few things I could mention and my peers would say "oh, me too!" > I'm quite sure that e.g. a 1 hr/day limit would be a good thing That would be more than twice the limit described > You can say "parents", but at one point children stop listening. Then what do you do? My parents actually did limit me to 30m/day on weekdays (they took the limits off on weekends). I don't know why you suggest that I could've simply ignored them (but somehow couldn't ignore a government mandate?). When I would reach my limit for the day I'd generally do what homework I had (fair enough), and then... do nothing. Mindlessly watch TV out of total boredom. Looking back, I'm not sure why they thought that was better. Anyway: the common theme for this and all other totalitarian ideas is that individuals are different people with different needs, and what's best for one isn't best for others.
  - gmadsen 5y ago
    I assume a government mandate would be controlled at the ISP level. Most parents aren't tech savy enough for that. As a child, I was easily able to hide playing games.
- falcolas 5y ago
  Reading books is not all that different from gaming from the point of view of value to a child's development. It's escapism, it's a much more solo activity than many online games today, and the primary skills it encourages - reading and imagination - is available in most games to one degree or another. To put another way, they could limit reading to 3 hours a week for mostly the same reasons.
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
That is interesting. I have a family friend, 20-years old and in college, who has maybe 1 or 2 friends in real life. All others are online gaming friends that he's had for years. Never met them. Of course he's gaming all the time because of that social network. I wish I knew the implications to such people when they are older. Is it a good influence? bad influence? doesn't matter? I don't know. Do you have any insights?
- brundolf 5y ago
  It wasn't even online for me as a child, it was just a common ground I had with others at school that served as an avenue for friendship (such avenues were uncommon for me) But I also know people like you describe, and I think that's perfectly legitimate too.
- zachlatta 5y ago
  I think online friendships can be just as meaningful and important as real-life friendships. I know they were / are for me.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Doesn’t matter. Probably positive if anything. A lot of children don’t hermit up and play video games because it’s better than being with friends - it’s because they don’t have any friend options in real life. Where I grew up, I was shunned, bullied, and neglected by pretty much everyone. It became apparent I was actually quite social, funny, and pleasant to be around when I was online. I made a lot of friends quickly when I was online playing games. But in real life I struggled because I wasn’t the right race, didn’t look the right way, wasn’t willing to throw out homophobic and racial slurs, and didn’t enjoy the same activities as everyone else. I’m really surprised HN has such a myopic 80-year old take on video games. Must be because it’s early still…
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Well yes that's true. But at the same time a lot of your potential real life friends are also going to be playing video games instead of being sociable in real life. I do empathize with you a lot having had a very similar experience in my youth. But ultimately finding people that were like me in real life was crucial.
jacknews 5y ago
I'm quite happy for my kids to spend hours playing online when they are playing together with friends. They start up discord audio rooms or whatever and play as a team. Of course, playing with a ball in a field might be better, but, covid. I don't allow them to play single-player games so much, unless it's something original, story or experience-based. Undertale, Braid, Journey, etc. Certainly nothing 'infinite scrolling', with in-app purchase level-ups, etc, which are obviously just calculated to be addictive.
- brundolf 5y ago
  I would probably ban my kids from playing anything with those gambling-style mechanics, yeah. I think it's a disgusting trend that's turning a wonderful medium into digital cigarettes. I might make an exception for something all their friends were playing together, but I wouldn't pay for any loot boxes. But I would caution against being too picky about single-player experiences. The most meaningful games for me were not generally story-based, they were "play-based". Exploring mechanics, exploring a world, seeing what might be possible, what might lie out there to be found. Zelda, Pokémon, etc. A game doesn't have to be a work of literature to be meaningful and worthwhile; children in particular benefit from play. I would cite Minecraft as a good modern example of this ethos (which can of course be played either alone or with others, and is valuable in both modes).
  - jacknews 5y ago
    I agree, I'm happy with Minecraft, though again they usually play cooperatively either to build things, or to fight/capture-the-flag in teams. Similarly with many Roblox games, but in that case they most enjoy making games themselves. And a lot of time on Scratch - I'm quite impressed with some of the games and interative 'skits' they make.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  > Of course, playing with a ball in a field might be better, but, covid. Depending on the kind of "ball", but your kid goes to school., no? that's way more dangerous than playing outside in the sunshine. from a covid perspective.
loudtieblahblah 5y ago
I spent a lot of time hiding away in my room - up late on the internet, playing video games, reading books, listening to music - often the kind aimed at the alienated. I felt alone, like i didn't belong. Some of it was my personality, some of it was how my parents raised me. Some was how that was juxtaposed against the culture/environment i was raised into. My parents pushed a lot of sports and i grew out of it - favoring poetry ( that i didn't have thick enough skin to ever better myself at), dreaming of being a rock musician (see former), watching hours of scifi and fantasy. And i dunno. Now I'm 40. And all my life i've almost prided myself on my introversion, my anti-social aspects, my quirky, sometimes cynical view of the world, my constantly ability to not want to be locked into the major binaries and choices society sets out for you. And after coming down with severe anxiety.... something about it just flipped in me that made me realize how valuable human connection is. how much family matters. How much connections with your community does. Not some online community of people who only get in contexts you can easily block or mute. How much.. being outside in sunshine and nature and being active, matters. I look at this boring cyberpunk world i was a part of, and there's nothing there but isolation and depression. There's nothing there but bad habits preventing you from being your best, healthiest, happiest, you. And it's one of these things you don't realize....until something happens that forces you to need these things. Then you look back and be like.. would i ever be right where I'm at, right here, right now.. if i didn't do all this mentally unhealthy shit for 25+ years? There's lots of reasons i wasn't positively engaged with my peers - there's blame to go around to me, my folks, and even externally to just the way society was and increasingly is, but I take responsibility for my portion and i say my reaciton to it all was wrong. And don't want my kid getting lost in digital worlds (and jesus - it's so much scarier today that it was 20-25 years ago), hiding away, brooding to depressive and aggressive, mad-at-the-world music and basically being someone who's unreachable unless you're some underdog geek or "wrong crowd" peer.
- woah 5y ago
  Honestly, it sounds like your current attitude is as extreme as your former one.
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago

tgv 5y ago

Reading did that for me. > They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers Three hours a week isn't much, but it doesn't have to be gaming to connect with people of your age, isn't it? > It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult. I don't think it's what worries the Chinese government. Or me. I'm quite sure that e.g. a 1 hr/day limit would be a good thing. You can say "parents", but at one point children stop listening. Then what do you do?

brundolf 5y ago
> Reading did that for me. Reading decidedly did not do that for me. I didn't have the attention span for/interest in most books. > but it doesn't have to be gaming to connect with people of your age, isn't it? Socializing was always difficult for me. Gaming was one of the few things I could mention and my peers would say "oh, me too!" > I'm quite sure that e.g. a 1 hr/day limit would be a good thing That would be more than twice the limit described > You can say "parents", but at one point children stop listening. Then what do you do? My parents actually did limit me to 30m/day on weekdays (they took the limits off on weekends). I don't know why you suggest that I could've simply ignored them (but somehow couldn't ignore a government mandate?). When I would reach my limit for the day I'd generally do what homework I had (fair enough), and then... do nothing. Mindlessly watch TV out of total boredom. Looking back, I'm not sure why they thought that was better. Anyway: the common theme for this and all other totalitarian ideas is that individuals are different people with different needs, and what's best for one isn't best for others.
- gmadsen 5y ago
  I assume a government mandate would be controlled at the ISP level. Most parents aren't tech savy enough for that. As a child, I was easily able to hide playing games.
falcolas 5y ago
Reading books is not all that different from gaming from the point of view of value to a child's development. It's escapism, it's a much more solo activity than many online games today, and the primary skills it encourages - reading and imagination - is available in most games to one degree or another. To put another way, they could limit reading to 3 hours a week for mostly the same reasons.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago

That is interesting. I have a family friend, 20-years old and in college, who has maybe 1 or 2 friends in real life. All others are online gaming friends that he's had for years. Never met them. Of course he's gaming all the time because of that social network. I wish I knew the implications to such people when they are older. Is it a good influence? bad influence? doesn't matter? I don't know. Do you have any insights?

brundolf 5y ago
It wasn't even online for me as a child, it was just a common ground I had with others at school that served as an avenue for friendship (such avenues were uncommon for me) But I also know people like you describe, and I think that's perfectly legitimate too.
zachlatta 5y ago
I think online friendships can be just as meaningful and important as real-life friendships. I know they were / are for me.
bradlys 5y ago
Doesn’t matter. Probably positive if anything. A lot of children don’t hermit up and play video games because it’s better than being with friends - it’s because they don’t have any friend options in real life. Where I grew up, I was shunned, bullied, and neglected by pretty much everyone. It became apparent I was actually quite social, funny, and pleasant to be around when I was online. I made a lot of friends quickly when I was online playing games. But in real life I struggled because I wasn’t the right race, didn’t look the right way, wasn’t willing to throw out homophobic and racial slurs, and didn’t enjoy the same activities as everyone else. I’m really surprised HN has such a myopic 80-year old take on video games. Must be because it’s early still…
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Well yes that's true. But at the same time a lot of your potential real life friends are also going to be playing video games instead of being sociable in real life. I do empathize with you a lot having had a very similar experience in my youth. But ultimately finding people that were like me in real life was crucial.

jacknews 5y ago

I'm quite happy for my kids to spend hours playing online when they are playing together with friends. They start up discord audio rooms or whatever and play as a team. Of course, playing with a ball in a field might be better, but, covid. I don't allow them to play single-player games so much, unless it's something original, story or experience-based. Undertale, Braid, Journey, etc. Certainly nothing 'infinite scrolling', with in-app purchase level-ups, etc, which are obviously just calculated to be addictive.

brundolf 5y ago
I would probably ban my kids from playing anything with those gambling-style mechanics, yeah. I think it's a disgusting trend that's turning a wonderful medium into digital cigarettes. I might make an exception for something all their friends were playing together, but I wouldn't pay for any loot boxes. But I would caution against being too picky about single-player experiences. The most meaningful games for me were not generally story-based, they were "play-based". Exploring mechanics, exploring a world, seeing what might be possible, what might lie out there to be found. Zelda, Pokémon, etc. A game doesn't have to be a work of literature to be meaningful and worthwhile; children in particular benefit from play. I would cite Minecraft as a good modern example of this ethos (which can of course be played either alone or with others, and is valuable in both modes).
- jacknews 5y ago
  I agree, I'm happy with Minecraft, though again they usually play cooperatively either to build things, or to fight/capture-the-flag in teams. Similarly with many Roblox games, but in that case they most enjoy making games themselves. And a lot of time on Scratch - I'm quite impressed with some of the games and interative 'skits' they make.
loudtieblahblah 5y ago
> Of course, playing with a ball in a field might be better, but, covid. Depending on the kind of "ball", but your kid goes to school., no? that's way more dangerous than playing outside in the sunshine. from a covid perspective.

loudtieblahblah 5y ago

I spent a lot of time hiding away in my room - up late on the internet, playing video games, reading books, listening to music - often the kind aimed at the alienated. I felt alone, like i didn't belong. Some of it was my personality, some of it was how my parents raised me. Some was how that was juxtaposed against the culture/environment i was raised into. My parents pushed a lot of sports and i grew out of it - favoring poetry ( that i didn't have thick enough skin to ever better myself at), dreaming of being a rock musician (see former), watching hours of scifi and fantasy. And i dunno. Now I'm 40. And all my life i've almost prided myself on my introversion, my anti-social aspects, my quirky, sometimes cynical view of the world, my constantly ability to not want to be locked into the major binaries and choices society sets out for you. And after coming down with severe anxiety.... something about it just flipped in me that made me realize how valuable human connection is. how much family matters. How much connections with your community does. Not some online community of people who only get in contexts you can easily block or mute. How much.. being outside in sunshine and nature and being active, matters. I look at this boring cyberpunk world i was a part of, and there's nothing there but isolation and depression. There's nothing there but bad habits preventing you from being your best, healthiest, happiest, you. And it's one of these things you don't realize....until something happens that forces you to need these things. Then you look back and be like.. would i ever be right where I'm at, right here, right now.. if i didn't do all this mentally unhealthy shit for 25+ years? There's lots of reasons i wasn't positively engaged with my peers - there's blame to go around to me, my folks, and even externally to just the way society was and increasingly is, but I take responsibility for my portion and i say my reaciton to it all was wrong. And don't want my kid getting lost in digital worlds (and jesus - it's so much scarier today that it was 20-25 years ago), hiding away, brooding to depressive and aggressive, mad-at-the-world music and basically being someone who's unreachable unless you're some underdog geek or "wrong crowd" peer.

woah 5y ago
Honestly, it sounds like your current attitude is as extreme as your former one.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago