3 ms·

Potential issues can arise when fictional races are transparently based on real ethnic groups, though.

jarin 15y ago
If you look closely though, there are people of many different real-life races among the Dothraki (I counted white, black, and asian people, not to mention Jason Momoa whose race I have no idea about). Culturally, they seem to be based on the ancient Mongols, not on any particular currently-existing culture. Not to mention that as far as I'm aware there aren't any ethnic groups who stereotypically give gifts of snakes to people. I think it's just reading way too much into a fantasy show that seems to take deliberate pains not to stereotype real-life ethnicities (except for maybe the feudal British).
- MikeCapone 15y ago
  Well, it's not like I've written a dissertation on this and have very complex arguments, so you might be right. But what I've noticed in a broader sense is that in these types of fictional worlds, you often have the bare-chested, dark-skinned people doing barbarous things and making gutural noises. Sometimes being downright evil without much reason (because they actually enjoy it or whatever), and they mostly don't have real '3D' characters but are a plot device for violence and other uncivilized actions. They're so cookie cutter that you could see any number of them killed without really feeling anything. On the other side, you have the Northern European bunch, some of whom can be quite evil too, but usually for complex geopolitical reasons or other more human motivations. In other words, they don't do evil things just for fun or because they don't know better, but because they think they're actually doing the right thing, somehow. Their characters are usually much more developed. Maybe it's just like this because of the way our evolved brains work, and the target audience can't help but identify with a certain 'tribe'. I don't know.
  - bmelton 15y ago
    If you've only read the first book (or only watched the show), I can sort of see how you'd make that statement, but in the lands outside of Westeros, there are dark-skinned people who are wise, spiritually enlightened, and better spoken than the bulk of the 'Northern European' folks presently on the show. Further, it makes sense that a group of barbaric nomads who ride horseback on the plains would have darker pigment than those who spend their lives at court in a castle. That part isn't fantasy, it's evolution.
- w1ntermute 15y ago
  > not to stereotype real-life ethnicities (except for maybe the feudal British). This is actually very true. The Seven Kingdoms are based on the Heptarchy (Lancaster --> Lannister, York --> Stark) and so the story is (very) loosely based upon the War of the Roses.
  - com 15y ago
    Except that the Heptarchy were East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Mercia, Northumbria (Bernicia, Deira), Sussex, Wessex (I know it's true because wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy told me ;-) But yeah, Lancaster->Lannister seemed like a good hint that the War of the Roses was the template for this dynastic struggle.
- cpeterso 15y ago
  > there are people of many different real-life races among the Dothraki (I counted white, black, and asian people, not to mention Jason Momoa whose race I have no idea about). I thought most of the non-brown-skinned people traveling with the Dothraki were slaves received as tribute or taken in battle?

jarin 15y ago

If you look closely though, there are people of many different real-life races among the Dothraki (I counted white, black, and asian people, not to mention Jason Momoa whose race I have no idea about). Culturally, they seem to be based on the ancient Mongols, not on any particular currently-existing culture. Not to mention that as far as I'm aware there aren't any ethnic groups who stereotypically give gifts of snakes to people. I think it's just reading way too much into a fantasy show that seems to take deliberate pains not to stereotype real-life ethnicities (except for maybe the feudal British).

MikeCapone 15y ago
Well, it's not like I've written a dissertation on this and have very complex arguments, so you might be right. But what I've noticed in a broader sense is that in these types of fictional worlds, you often have the bare-chested, dark-skinned people doing barbarous things and making gutural noises. Sometimes being downright evil without much reason (because they actually enjoy it or whatever), and they mostly don't have real '3D' characters but are a plot device for violence and other uncivilized actions. They're so cookie cutter that you could see any number of them killed without really feeling anything. On the other side, you have the Northern European bunch, some of whom can be quite evil too, but usually for complex geopolitical reasons or other more human motivations. In other words, they don't do evil things just for fun or because they don't know better, but because they think they're actually doing the right thing, somehow. Their characters are usually much more developed. Maybe it's just like this because of the way our evolved brains work, and the target audience can't help but identify with a certain 'tribe'. I don't know.
- bmelton 15y ago
  If you've only read the first book (or only watched the show), I can sort of see how you'd make that statement, but in the lands outside of Westeros, there are dark-skinned people who are wise, spiritually enlightened, and better spoken than the bulk of the 'Northern European' folks presently on the show. Further, it makes sense that a group of barbaric nomads who ride horseback on the plains would have darker pigment than those who spend their lives at court in a castle. That part isn't fantasy, it's evolution.
w1ntermute 15y ago
> not to stereotype real-life ethnicities (except for maybe the feudal British). This is actually very true. The Seven Kingdoms are based on the Heptarchy (Lancaster --> Lannister, York --> Stark) and so the story is (very) loosely based upon the War of the Roses.
- com 15y ago
  Except that the Heptarchy were East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Mercia, Northumbria (Bernicia, Deira), Sussex, Wessex (I know it's true because wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy told me ;-) But yeah, Lancaster->Lannister seemed like a good hint that the War of the Roses was the template for this dynastic struggle.
cpeterso 15y ago
> there are people of many different real-life races among the Dothraki (I counted white, black, and asian people, not to mention Jason Momoa whose race I have no idea about). I thought most of the non-brown-skinned people traveling with the Dothraki were slaves received as tribute or taken in battle?