8 ms·

Gap acquires 3D fitting room startup Drapr

78 points by vitabenes 5y ago

bingohbangoh 5y ago
No amounts mentioned. Can I assume it was a pittance then?
- emptysea 5y ago
  Crunchbase says they only raised $125k so even if they were acquired for a few million, they likely made out okay.
  - the-dude 5y ago
    That seems to be the YC batch amount.
- yccc 5y ago
  If they’re an acquisition target this early in their life then it must be because of potential, not inability to raise money, as being a part of YC would make it straight forward to raise capital to continue to identify business opportunities (if they were struggling). I’d be very surprised if it was under 20m.
yeldarb 5y ago
Congrats guys! For those who don’t know, Drapr was a YC co from last summer’s batch: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/drapr https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/drapr
gootler 5y ago
Nobody cares. I walk around in my underwear all day thanks to China's Covid!
wombatmobile 5y ago
What problem/s does 3D fitting room solve? What problem/s does 3D fitting room introduce?
- deanclatworthy 5y ago
  Presumably what is my number one issue with online clothes shopping, and why I have and never will do it - sizing and perception. 1) Sizing - ordering multiple sizes so you get the right one is not a sustainable or environmentally friendly way of purchasing clothes online. 2) Perception - looking at a good-looking, slim person trying on clothes is not representative of most people. I've seen plenty of clothes look good on a mannequin look awful on me. Wish I could say vice-versa, but the mannequins don't talk back.
  - wombatmobile 5y ago
    What does the back end look like? Is every garment custom made, or selected from inventory?
    - deanclatworthy 5y ago
      I've no idea. I've never bought clothing online and don't trust these services either (yet).
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - sumtechguy 5y ago
    Even sizing can be 'odd' sometimes. I can many times grab 2 different items the only difference supposedly is color. One will fit the other will have weird spots that dont. I basically have to try everything on before I buy it. Otherwise I am just going to have to return it immediately. That is currently easier in a store than playing the mail it back game. If I were ordering custom sized cloths then maybe this would be useful. Neat for sure. But I am not seeing the usefulness because of the wild inconsistencies in most cloths.
  - tomnipotent 5y ago
    > is not a sustainable or environmentally friendly These products need to be shipped to the U.S., usually by boat, where freight trucks haul them to warehouses before another set of freight trucks deliver product to storefronts which have giant parking lots next to them so customers can drive their gas cars to park in them. Let's not talk about all the unsold waste. I'm open to options.
neverywhere 5y ago
This seems to be an acquihire? IF you wanted to get a high valuation you would have stuck it out by yourself longer I would think?
- tootie 5y ago
  I worked at a big retail company a few years that was desperate to make investments in tech. Probably didn't help that HQ was in Silicon Valley. They ended acquiring a 3D company for a similar purpose to Gap only the company was actually a total mismatch for what they intended. They produced 3D models, but not actual usable software. The tech leadership internally advised against the acquisition but the CEO did it anyway. Then we had to pivot them to basically build what we wanted from scratch with no clear market need. AFAIK, it's been languishing for a few years.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  Gap, Inc. also has a collection of dying brands and is a little desperate. Gap and Banana Republic are stale. I guess Old Navy is doing OK. Google trends says Athleta seems to do OK, but it's a second-rate Lululemon.
endisneigh 5y ago
Personally I don't think the issue is "3D fitting" - the issue is that the sizing and fit of clothes hasn't both been: standardized and quantified. Do both and a 3D fitting room wouldn't be necessary to begin with.
- ezekg 5y ago
  This is especially true for Gap. Their sizing is bonkers compared to the norm. I stopped shopping there a long time ago because it was too much of a hassle to go and try things on in person. Instead, I order online from retailers that have consistent sizing and that I know fit me well.
- doikor 5y ago
  One problem with that is that not all the articles are the same size. You can order 1000 t-shirts in the same size from a manufacturer and not all of them will be the same size (especially if you order the cheapest you can find). This is mainly due to cheap fabrics stretching unevenly (roll to roll difference and beginning of the roll can stretch differently from the end) and if you cut them by pressing through a thick stack the ones at different spots in the stack stretch differently during the cut and thus end up different size even if "cut" to the same size.
  - clipradiowallet 5y ago
    As someone totally ignorant of this industry... how can those problems be fixed? Is it an issue of using higher quality materials, or some factory process change?
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      Inexpensive, quality of construction, reliable sizing. Pick two.
  - rhacker 5y ago
    What if we ended up with a system where I know I'm a B29. Then after every shirt made, it's tested against the B26 - B34 (since it's probably somewhere in there) and then labelled as a fit for B29. Then I just go shopping for B29s.
istingray 5y ago
Owning this data myself seems worthwhile. Being able to query a shop's clothes without giving up my dataset, i.e. each measurement and each shirt being anonymized so the vendor can't simply see all my measurements. Think there's a name for this process.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
> by showing them how an item will actually look on their body This is only half of the equation, and I find a lot of people are ignoring - mainly because it seems intractable. As important as how an item of clothing looks on my body, is how it feels on my body. Does it constrict when I move. Am I able to sit, stand, and walk comfortably in it? Some times a piece of clothing can look perfect, if I am standing rigidly like a mannequin, but it is highly uncomfortable with any movement.
noja 5y ago
Zozo solved this with the Zozosuit: https://corp.zozo.com/en/news/20201029-6375/ https://corp.zozo.com/en/news/20201029-6375/ (that is version 2). You wear a ridiculous looking figure-hugging suit and scan yourself with their app. Then you don't wear the suit again (unless you change shape). Version 2 of the suit looks much less silly. Now you can order what you want and it's for your size! It does works, but... make sure you know exactly what you want. e.g. do you want a closer fit? Looser fit?
stephanst 5y ago
There's a lot of interesting discussion here! I am the ex-CTO and co-founder of a company that does 3D-scan-based fit, specifically ML-based morphology extraction from 3D data of people (www.treedys.com , not a YC company ;-) ). A lot of the points raised here in the comments are very valid: there is absolutely no consensus on standardisation of "fit"... but even if there was: "fit" is a very complicated concept that means different things to people in different settings. Furthermore there is often no consensus even inside big clothing companies as to which grading system (this is the "fit catalog" so to speak) is to be used for a specific collection / year / style etc... and those companies that do have this kind of thing standardised are often fighting with internal staff that grew up in a non-digital era to keep the documentation up to date, make sure the right files are shared, push people towards using digital design tools consistently etc... But this does not mean - by any stretch - that the current system cannot be improved! There are many things that can be done with morphological data that are not immediately obvious in terms of improving fit for individual end users. Comparing "tshirt measurements" VS "human measurements" is the obvious starting point, but this is not actually the best way to make real-life recommendations, and there are many better systems that are possible once you have high quality metrics! Here is one for example: what about completely disregarding the "extracted body measurements in inches", and just building a flywheel where you take people's entire set of say 250 measurements as a vector, and use this data point along with a set of items they have bought (for themselves) and not returned. Once you have this kind of data for, say, 5000 people and 50 SKUs of items of clothing... you can build a very granular recommendation system, based on morphology, which will take into account many aspects of "fit" that are not immediately obvious in the measurements... One thing is for sure: the big incumbents in fashion retail have felt the sting of shifting to an online-first world. In 2020 the total dollar amount of merchandise returned from online retail doubled (https://nrf.com/media-center/press-releases/428-billion-merchandise-returned-2020 https://nrf.com/media-center/press-releases/428-billion-merc...). Literally: double the volume in one year. This was especially impactful in online fashion, where returns have always been a giant cost and a limiting factor to expansion ... but up until 2020 fashion retailers had been delaying action while desperately trying to modernise other aspects of their businesses, and morphology data felt like "too big of a problem for now. Now, in 2021, with a few big players like Amazon taking the lead in "morphology-based fit" the situation is changing... and even the slowest fashion brands are starting to realise that not having a fit / morphology strategy in 2021 is starting to look like an automotive manufacturer NOT having an EV strategy in 2012 when Tesla was releasing the model S... We're feeling it: after hanging on by the skin of our teeth for 6 years building deep tech solutions ( 3D ML to map a naked body on messy point cloud data of a clothed person for example, that was a tough nut to crack!), we're suddenly getting a lot more inbound from people we could not get on phone for a 5-minute conversation 2 years ago. And we finally have our first public-facing deployments in-store, using the full capture-to-ML stack (all developed in-house) that we have been crafting all this time! It feels good to finally get a product out and start getting the feedback loop going after so long. All of this to say: congrats to Drapr, They made a great product and their timing was excellent! Let's hope this helps GAP achieve it's sustainability goals and reduce returns and waste, because in the end this will be the major benefit to all of us :) But in any case: morphology-based-fit is now "an idea whose time has come", and we can expect a lot of cool new things to come from this over the next few years!

78 points by vitabenes 5y ago

bingohbangoh 5y ago

No amounts mentioned. Can I assume it was a pittance then?

emptysea 5y ago
Crunchbase says they only raised $125k so even if they were acquired for a few million, they likely made out okay.
- the-dude 5y ago
  That seems to be the YC batch amount.
yccc 5y ago
If they’re an acquisition target this early in their life then it must be because of potential, not inability to raise money, as being a part of YC would make it straight forward to raise capital to continue to identify business opportunities (if they were struggling). I’d be very surprised if it was under 20m.

yeldarb 5y ago

Congrats guys! For those who don’t know, Drapr was a YC co from last summer’s batch: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/drapr https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/drapr

gootler 5y ago

Nobody cares. I walk around in my underwear all day thanks to China's Covid!

wombatmobile 5y ago

What problem/s does 3D fitting room solve? What problem/s does 3D fitting room introduce?

deanclatworthy 5y ago
Presumably what is my number one issue with online clothes shopping, and why I have and never will do it - sizing and perception. 1) Sizing - ordering multiple sizes so you get the right one is not a sustainable or environmentally friendly way of purchasing clothes online. 2) Perception - looking at a good-looking, slim person trying on clothes is not representative of most people. I've seen plenty of clothes look good on a mannequin look awful on me. Wish I could say vice-versa, but the mannequins don't talk back.
- wombatmobile 5y ago
  What does the back end look like? Is every garment custom made, or selected from inventory?
  - deanclatworthy 5y ago
    I've no idea. I've never bought clothing online and don't trust these services either (yet).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- sumtechguy 5y ago
  Even sizing can be 'odd' sometimes. I can many times grab 2 different items the only difference supposedly is color. One will fit the other will have weird spots that dont. I basically have to try everything on before I buy it. Otherwise I am just going to have to return it immediately. That is currently easier in a store than playing the mail it back game. If I were ordering custom sized cloths then maybe this would be useful. Neat for sure. But I am not seeing the usefulness because of the wild inconsistencies in most cloths.
- tomnipotent 5y ago
  > is not a sustainable or environmentally friendly These products need to be shipped to the U.S., usually by boat, where freight trucks haul them to warehouses before another set of freight trucks deliver product to storefronts which have giant parking lots next to them so customers can drive their gas cars to park in them. Let's not talk about all the unsold waste. I'm open to options.

neverywhere 5y ago

This seems to be an acquihire? IF you wanted to get a high valuation you would have stuck it out by yourself longer I would think?

tootie 5y ago
I worked at a big retail company a few years that was desperate to make investments in tech. Probably didn't help that HQ was in Silicon Valley. They ended acquiring a 3D company for a similar purpose to Gap only the company was actually a total mismatch for what they intended. They produced 3D models, but not actual usable software. The tech leadership internally advised against the acquisition but the CEO did it anyway. Then we had to pivot them to basically build what we wanted from scratch with no clear market need. AFAIK, it's been languishing for a few years.
dehrmann 5y ago
Gap, Inc. also has a collection of dying brands and is a little desperate. Gap and Banana Republic are stale. I guess Old Navy is doing OK. Google trends says Athleta seems to do OK, but it's a second-rate Lululemon.

endisneigh 5y ago

Personally I don't think the issue is "3D fitting" - the issue is that the sizing and fit of clothes hasn't both been: standardized and quantified. Do both and a 3D fitting room wouldn't be necessary to begin with.

ezekg 5y ago
This is especially true for Gap. Their sizing is bonkers compared to the norm. I stopped shopping there a long time ago because it was too much of a hassle to go and try things on in person. Instead, I order online from retailers that have consistent sizing and that I know fit me well.
doikor 5y ago
One problem with that is that not all the articles are the same size. You can order 1000 t-shirts in the same size from a manufacturer and not all of them will be the same size (especially if you order the cheapest you can find). This is mainly due to cheap fabrics stretching unevenly (roll to roll difference and beginning of the roll can stretch differently from the end) and if you cut them by pressing through a thick stack the ones at different spots in the stack stretch differently during the cut and thus end up different size even if "cut" to the same size.
- clipradiowallet 5y ago
  As someone totally ignorant of this industry... how can those problems be fixed? Is it an issue of using higher quality materials, or some factory process change?
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Inexpensive, quality of construction, reliable sizing. Pick two.
- rhacker 5y ago
  What if we ended up with a system where I know I'm a B29. Then after every shirt made, it's tested against the B26 - B34 (since it's probably somewhere in there) and then labelled as a fit for B29. Then I just go shopping for B29s.

istingray 5y ago

Owning this data myself seems worthwhile. Being able to query a shop's clothes without giving up my dataset, i.e. each measurement and each shirt being anonymized so the vendor can't simply see all my measurements. Think there's a name for this process.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago

> by showing them how an item will actually look on their body This is only half of the equation, and I find a lot of people are ignoring - mainly because it seems intractable. As important as how an item of clothing looks on my body, is how it feels on my body. Does it constrict when I move. Am I able to sit, stand, and walk comfortably in it? Some times a piece of clothing can look perfect, if I am standing rigidly like a mannequin, but it is highly uncomfortable with any movement.

noja 5y ago

Zozo solved this with the Zozosuit: https://corp.zozo.com/en/news/20201029-6375/ https://corp.zozo.com/en/news/20201029-6375/ (that is version 2). You wear a ridiculous looking figure-hugging suit and scan yourself with their app. Then you don't wear the suit again (unless you change shape). Version 2 of the suit looks much less silly. Now you can order what you want and it's for your size! It does works, but... make sure you know exactly what you want. e.g. do you want a closer fit? Looser fit?

stephanst 5y ago

There's a lot of interesting discussion here! I am the ex-CTO and co-founder of a company that does 3D-scan-based fit, specifically ML-based morphology extraction from 3D data of people (www.treedys.com , not a YC company ;-) ). A lot of the points raised here in the comments are very valid: there is absolutely no consensus on standardisation of "fit"... but even if there was: "fit" is a very complicated concept that means different things to people in different settings. Furthermore there is often no consensus even inside big clothing companies as to which grading system (this is the "fit catalog" so to speak) is to be used for a specific collection / year / style etc... and those companies that do have this kind of thing standardised are often fighting with internal staff that grew up in a non-digital era to keep the documentation up to date, make sure the right files are shared, push people towards using digital design tools consistently etc... But this does not mean - by any stretch - that the current system cannot be improved! There are many things that can be done with morphological data that are not immediately obvious in terms of improving fit for individual end users. Comparing "tshirt measurements" VS "human measurements" is the obvious starting point, but this is not actually the best way to make real-life recommendations, and there are many better systems that are possible once you have high quality metrics! Here is one for example: what about completely disregarding the "extracted body measurements in inches", and just building a flywheel where you take people's entire set of say 250 measurements as a vector, and use this data point along with a set of items they have bought (for themselves) and not returned. Once you have this kind of data for, say, 5000 people and 50 SKUs of items of clothing... you can build a very granular recommendation system, based on morphology, which will take into account many aspects of "fit" that are not immediately obvious in the measurements... One thing is for sure: the big incumbents in fashion retail have felt the sting of shifting to an online-first world. In 2020 the total dollar amount of merchandise returned from online retail doubled (https://nrf.com/media-center/press-releases/428-billion-merchandise-returned-2020 https://nrf.com/media-center/press-releases/428-billion-merc...). Literally: double the volume in one year. This was especially impactful in online fashion, where returns have always been a giant cost and a limiting factor to expansion ... but up until 2020 fashion retailers had been delaying action while desperately trying to modernise other aspects of their businesses, and morphology data felt like "too big of a problem for now. Now, in 2021, with a few big players like Amazon taking the lead in "morphology-based fit" the situation is changing... and even the slowest fashion brands are starting to realise that not having a fit / morphology strategy in 2021 is starting to look like an automotive manufacturer NOT having an EV strategy in 2012 when Tesla was releasing the model S... We're feeling it: after hanging on by the skin of our teeth for 6 years building deep tech solutions ( 3D ML to map a naked body on messy point cloud data of a clothed person for example, that was a tough nut to crack!), we're suddenly getting a lot more inbound from people we could not get on phone for a 5-minute conversation 2 years ago. And we finally have our first public-facing deployments in-store, using the full capture-to-ML stack (all developed in-house) that we have been crafting all this time! It feels good to finally get a product out and start getting the feedback loop going after so long. All of this to say: congrats to Drapr, They made a great product and their timing was excellent! Let's hope this helps GAP achieve it's sustainability goals and reduce returns and waste, because in the end this will be the major benefit to all of us :) But in any case: morphology-based-fit is now "an idea whose time has come", and we can expect a lot of cool new things to come from this over the next few years!