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I moved on. Pop!_OS (no Ubuntu telemetry and OpenSnitch) over MacBook Air is working flawlessly. Company MacBooks are with Arch/Manjaro. Will run Catalina for

by nbzso 5y ago

I moved on. Pop!_OS (no Ubuntu telemetry and OpenSnitch) over MacBook Air is working flawlessly. Company MacBooks are with Arch/Manjaro. Will run Catalina for specific tasks without internet until it breaks completely. The hostile design decisions of Apple are unbelievable. After 20 days of public backslash Apple is preparing for massive iPhone 13 campaign and pushing this obviously flawed intrusion with "common good" goals, normalizing surveillance on a new level. And all of this after Pegasus/NSO. But actually I am glad. No more shiny toys and marketing illusions for me. Expect everybody to follow suit. Year or two down the road this type of scanning and control will be mandatory. So the only way to respond is to invest in your privacy. Not in user-hostile, dark pattern designed products.

judge2020 5y ago
> Expect everybody to follow suit. Year or two down the road this type of scanning and control will be mandatory. Indeed, this article (despite many incorrect facts about the process) is right in that this is just a vocal minority 'screeching' to get the message out there to anyone willing to listen. The absolute majority of the population, or at least adult population, will always choose the path of least resistance - they just wants to live, work, avoid hardship, and partake in dopamine-inducing activity every day. There's a reason Google and Amazon are trillion-dollar enterprises and Hulu still has an ad-supported version that 70% of people choose[0] - people don't value privacy at all when dealing with these faceless companies. Society has always shifted the level of privacy they accept (think taxes, audits, search & seizure with probably cause), and this will just be another shift that people accept so that they continue on with their lives while not sacrificing any of their valuable time. 0: https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/hulu-ad-supported-subscribers-70-percent-1203227954/ https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/hulu-ad-supported-subs...
- geeB 5y ago
  The hulu number was quite surprising to me, given that the ad supported tier is $6/mo vs $12/mo for ad free, and if someone watches enough the extra $6/mo would seem worth it. It might have a lot to do with their $1.99 for one year promotion they do on Black Fridays though, which would change things considerably ($2 vs $144 per year), especially for households without enough disposable income. Easy enough to switch to a different person every year and keep it going for a while, and also at the time of that article it had been less than 3 years since the free tier with ads was removed. I don't think privacy has much to do with it though. People that don't have any idea about these topics just wouldn't care, and at least in my case I care but I'm under no illusion that paying for ad-free changes anything other than the convenience of not having ads. iirc hulu's ads cannot be skipped anyway, so they pretty much can collect the same exact information from both tiers.
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  Ad-supported is a distinct concern from "level of privacy", though. Google (et al) have done a lot to muddy the waters and keep telling us that ad-support "requires" panopticon levels of tracking and no privacy, but centuries of advertising history before that existed with little to no individual tracking and/or where is was maybe physically impossible (in magazines, newspapers, broadcast TV). Personally, I have no problem with ad-supported and generic/no-tracking. Ads themselves are not the privacy invasion, and have a reasonable history of helping to pay for things, and it is possible to rebuild ad companies to respect privacy (again). (It might take burning a few big players to the ground first, unfortunately.)
ur-whale 5y ago
> The hostile design decisions of Apple are unbelievable. Hostile for sure, unbelievable, not really. This type of "we know what's best for you" attitude is deeply ingrained in the DNA of Apple as a company. The fact that they did get it right many time and that their batting average is above other tech companies is no excuse for the fact that the attitude is deeply flawed. This was bound to happen.
- nbzso 5y ago
  Agree. As an 20+ years Apple user, I have suffered some big annoyances. You are holding it wrong. Here we go, we are removing "escape" but you have a touch-bar with customizable functionality, sorry this is the best laptop keyboard design - you will adapt to it. We are removing ports - but you will have Dongles - lot of dongles and this MagSafe shit that you love so much - no more for you. Innovation my TrashCan - not upgradable peace of trash, after 6 years - here we go MacPro - only for the Apple "elite hustler" club members, as a bonus 1000 dollars monitor stand. We don't like MacOS - to much control for the user is not good for Apple Profits - we like iOS and we will make everything like it. You will adapt. Now we are innovating on a geo-political stage, protecting our brand with the all time classic "Neural Cash" and bending a knee or two in the name of Apple dominance and antitrust avoidance. You will adapt, because you are trapped and we know you love us. Privacy, my ass. :)
BLKNSLVR 5y ago
It is an interesting counter-point to Apple's previously selling itself as the only company to respect your privacy. This kinda flies in the face of that except for the fact it's wrapped in, as you said, "common good" goals. I've never been Apple, but I'm currently attempting to migrate to a LineageOS daily-driver mobile, although I still require some amount (nano) of Google to get by. Ironically, I needed a Windows machine to do this, whilst I'm already almost exclusively Linux (Ubuntu and Pop!_OS).
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
A company that does not listen to its customers. Apple is different from the "tech" companies it seeks to compete with because its primary customers are not advertisers, they are Apple computer purchasers. It makes some sense that "tech" companies ignore feedback from users; users are not their customers and user privacy is antithetical to their core business of surveillance. However when Apple ignores its customers (users) it makes little sense. Maybe only a minority of Apple customers are aware of and understand the scanning issue and are giving feedback to Apple via the web. But here is a thought experiment: Does anyone think that if the majority of Apple customers were briefed on the issue and then asked if they agree/disgree with the minority of customers would they disagree with this informed minority. "Tech" companies should know whats best for advertisers. They can be expected to ignore user feedback complaining about surveillance. OTOH, Apple should know whats best for users. Its users are telling the company and the company is irgnoring the feedback.
LeftHandPath 5y ago
After three years of carrying my iPhone XS with no case with no problems, I dropped it several times in the last thirty days. It's about time for an upgrade. Happen to have any suggestions for what a privacy-conscious consumer should look into?
- hanklazard 5y ago
  I’m testing out CalyxOS on a pixel 3A. Impressed so far, just need a good way to map / navigate.
  - himaraya 5y ago
    Magic Earth?
  - 1339 5y ago
    from the amount I've used it, OrganicMaps seems to be pretty good (it's a fork of maps.me and uses OpenStreetMaps for map data)
- nbzso 5y ago
  Personally I have moved my habits in different direction. If I need a photo - I grab my old Sony RX. If I know that I will shoot - my old Leica MP240 with Summilux and 24mpx is enough. If I have to communicate with text - email or signal on computer. If I need in car navigation - Garmin. Deleted Facebook/Instagram spyware long time ago. Flickr also. Self-hosting is the way to go. I am using my iPhone for calls and sms with clear knowledge that everything is recorded. Banking apps when I don't have access to computer. I have iPad Pro 12"WIFI with faulty WIFI and no Apple care which I use only for drawing and digital painting. People around me are switching to deGoogled smartphones with Lineage/Calyx.
GauntletWizard 5y ago
We are infected by cancer. You can read the arguments on the article at the front page today about the abuse of juvenile delinquents by their wardens, and you can read the comments complaining that that the lack of sexual agency given to the prisoners was somehow itself a crime. I was at Facebook while their CSAM monitoring and warrant response group was defunded by a person heavily into "ageplay". Jeffrey Epstein was killed in prison while the cameras were turned off. These are not isolated, small incidents. There's a distinct undercurrent of pedophilia brewing in American society, and people are starting to notice. Tim Cook has to bend the knee, lest his own monstrosities are noticed.

by nbzso 5y ago

judge2020 5y ago

> Expect everybody to follow suit. Year or two down the road this type of scanning and control will be mandatory. Indeed, this article (despite many incorrect facts about the process) is right in that this is just a vocal minority 'screeching' to get the message out there to anyone willing to listen. The absolute majority of the population, or at least adult population, will always choose the path of least resistance - they just wants to live, work, avoid hardship, and partake in dopamine-inducing activity every day. There's a reason Google and Amazon are trillion-dollar enterprises and Hulu still has an ad-supported version that 70% of people choose[0] - people don't value privacy at all when dealing with these faceless companies. Society has always shifted the level of privacy they accept (think taxes, audits, search & seizure with probably cause), and this will just be another shift that people accept so that they continue on with their lives while not sacrificing any of their valuable time. 0: https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/hulu-ad-supported-subscribers-70-percent-1203227954/ https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/hulu-ad-supported-subs...

geeB 5y ago
The hulu number was quite surprising to me, given that the ad supported tier is $6/mo vs $12/mo for ad free, and if someone watches enough the extra $6/mo would seem worth it. It might have a lot to do with their $1.99 for one year promotion they do on Black Fridays though, which would change things considerably ($2 vs $144 per year), especially for households without enough disposable income. Easy enough to switch to a different person every year and keep it going for a while, and also at the time of that article it had been less than 3 years since the free tier with ads was removed. I don't think privacy has much to do with it though. People that don't have any idea about these topics just wouldn't care, and at least in my case I care but I'm under no illusion that paying for ad-free changes anything other than the convenience of not having ads. iirc hulu's ads cannot be skipped anyway, so they pretty much can collect the same exact information from both tiers.
WorldMaker 5y ago
Ad-supported is a distinct concern from "level of privacy", though. Google (et al) have done a lot to muddy the waters and keep telling us that ad-support "requires" panopticon levels of tracking and no privacy, but centuries of advertising history before that existed with little to no individual tracking and/or where is was maybe physically impossible (in magazines, newspapers, broadcast TV). Personally, I have no problem with ad-supported and generic/no-tracking. Ads themselves are not the privacy invasion, and have a reasonable history of helping to pay for things, and it is possible to rebuild ad companies to respect privacy (again). (It might take burning a few big players to the ground first, unfortunately.)

ur-whale 5y ago

> The hostile design decisions of Apple are unbelievable. Hostile for sure, unbelievable, not really. This type of "we know what's best for you" attitude is deeply ingrained in the DNA of Apple as a company. The fact that they did get it right many time and that their batting average is above other tech companies is no excuse for the fact that the attitude is deeply flawed. This was bound to happen.

nbzso 5y ago
Agree. As an 20+ years Apple user, I have suffered some big annoyances. You are holding it wrong. Here we go, we are removing "escape" but you have a touch-bar with customizable functionality, sorry this is the best laptop keyboard design - you will adapt to it. We are removing ports - but you will have Dongles - lot of dongles and this MagSafe shit that you love so much - no more for you. Innovation my TrashCan - not upgradable peace of trash, after 6 years - here we go MacPro - only for the Apple "elite hustler" club members, as a bonus 1000 dollars monitor stand. We don't like MacOS - to much control for the user is not good for Apple Profits - we like iOS and we will make everything like it. You will adapt. Now we are innovating on a geo-political stage, protecting our brand with the all time classic "Neural Cash" and bending a knee or two in the name of Apple dominance and antitrust avoidance. You will adapt, because you are trapped and we know you love us. Privacy, my ass. :)

BLKNSLVR 5y ago

It is an interesting counter-point to Apple's previously selling itself as the only company to respect your privacy. This kinda flies in the face of that except for the fact it's wrapped in, as you said, "common good" goals. I've never been Apple, but I'm currently attempting to migrate to a LineageOS daily-driver mobile, although I still require some amount (nano) of Google to get by. Ironically, I needed a Windows machine to do this, whilst I'm already almost exclusively Linux (Ubuntu and Pop!_OS).

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

A company that does not listen to its customers. Apple is different from the "tech" companies it seeks to compete with because its primary customers are not advertisers, they are Apple computer purchasers. It makes some sense that "tech" companies ignore feedback from users; users are not their customers and user privacy is antithetical to their core business of surveillance. However when Apple ignores its customers (users) it makes little sense. Maybe only a minority of Apple customers are aware of and understand the scanning issue and are giving feedback to Apple via the web. But here is a thought experiment: Does anyone think that if the majority of Apple customers were briefed on the issue and then asked if they agree/disgree with the minority of customers would they disagree with this informed minority. "Tech" companies should know whats best for advertisers. They can be expected to ignore user feedback complaining about surveillance. OTOH, Apple should know whats best for users. Its users are telling the company and the company is irgnoring the feedback.

LeftHandPath 5y ago

After three years of carrying my iPhone XS with no case with no problems, I dropped it several times in the last thirty days. It's about time for an upgrade. Happen to have any suggestions for what a privacy-conscious consumer should look into?

hanklazard 5y ago
I’m testing out CalyxOS on a pixel 3A. Impressed so far, just need a good way to map / navigate.
- himaraya 5y ago
  Magic Earth?
- 1339 5y ago
  from the amount I've used it, OrganicMaps seems to be pretty good (it's a fork of maps.me and uses OpenStreetMaps for map data)
nbzso 5y ago
Personally I have moved my habits in different direction. If I need a photo - I grab my old Sony RX. If I know that I will shoot - my old Leica MP240 with Summilux and 24mpx is enough. If I have to communicate with text - email or signal on computer. If I need in car navigation - Garmin. Deleted Facebook/Instagram spyware long time ago. Flickr also. Self-hosting is the way to go. I am using my iPhone for calls and sms with clear knowledge that everything is recorded. Banking apps when I don't have access to computer. I have iPad Pro 12"WIFI with faulty WIFI and no Apple care which I use only for drawing and digital painting. People around me are switching to deGoogled smartphones with Lineage/Calyx.

GauntletWizard 5y ago

We are infected by cancer. You can read the arguments on the article at the front page today about the abuse of juvenile delinquents by their wardens, and you can read the comments complaining that that the lack of sexual agency given to the prisoners was somehow itself a crime. I was at Facebook while their CSAM monitoring and warrant response group was defunded by a person heavily into "ageplay". Jeffrey Epstein was killed in prison while the cameras were turned off. These are not isolated, small incidents. There's a distinct undercurrent of pedophilia brewing in American society, and people are starting to notice. Tim Cook has to bend the knee, lest his own monstrosities are noticed.