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I know it's uncool to do this, but I'm gender-swapping it and I simply can't imagine someone making a statement like this regarding statutory rape and being abl

I know it's uncool to do this, but I'm gender-swapping it and I simply can't imagine someone making a statement like this regarding statutory rape and being able to keep their job afterward: > "There’s no such thing as consensual sex when you are supervising someone, regardless of their age, but the reality of it is that some of the girls in prison are very persuasive and some of the men are very persuasive," These boys are being raped. It doesn't matter if they're perceived to be instigators, it is incumbent upon the staff to show them that there are boundaries that should not be crossed. At the very least, juvenile victims of sexual assault are more likely to become adult perpetrators. Tolerating rapists operating as guards in male prisons will likely result in the creation of future rapists.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
At the very least, juvenile victims of sexual assault are more likely to become adult perpetrators. Do you have a citation for that? I'm aware of head injuries playing a role in a lot of terrible crimes, but I've not heard this assertion before that victims of sexual assault are at greater than average risk of becoming rapists themselves.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Sure, it's called the victim-to-perpetrator cycle; first thing that came up for me was the Government of QC fact sheet: https://www.inspq.qc.ca/en/sexual-assault/fact-sheets/sexual-abuse-childhood-perpetrators https://www.inspq.qc.ca/en/sexual-assault/fact-sheets/sexual...
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    Thank you. But quotes from your own source: While a history of sexual victimization seems to be one of the risk factors that predispose an individual to commit sexual assault, it does not provide sufficient explanation for most instances of this type of assault. There is relatively little evidence that the victim-to-perpetrator cycle is a major factor in sexual assault. These boys should be protected from being raped because they shouldn't be raped. Period.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      It's a factor, not a major factor. Further on in the document, it states: > Experts maintain that, in the case of males, being sexually abused in childhood is an important risk factor for committing sexual assault later on in life, but that it is not the only risk factor that plays a role in the perpetration of sexual assault.
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I spent a lot of years reading all the research I could find. Victims of abuse of any kind fairly often get additional baggage heaped on them that they are now damaged goods and monsters who are highly likely to abuse others because of what was done to them. I used to see the statistic that about 30 percent of children who grow up in abusive families will go on to abuse their own children while only 5 or 6 percent of "normal" people abuse their kids. I generally like to turn that around and say "So you're telling me that in spite of learning all the wrong lessons, two-thirds of victims will be good parents and with no justification whatsoever, five or six percent of normal people will abuse their own kids for no real reason." I am also hearing subtext for "We shouldn't let boys get raped because men are inherently bad people inclined to become rapists. Think about da womenz. These boys should be protected to protect women from them in the future." I don't think it adds anything of real value to this discussion of the very real issue of boys being sexually assaulted while in legal custody. Boys already face more shame and stigmatization than girls without being told "And now we expect you to become a rapist!" I've seen comments by male victims over the years on HN about how much baggage they deal with. It's generally much worse than what I had to wash off and it was mostly men who helped me wash it off. So I don't much like seeing this minor factor talked about in this way given all that context.
        dleslie 5y ago
        > Think about da womenz. Sadly, this is an effective means to have positive action for men gain acceptance. > Boys already face more shame and stigmatization than girls without being told "And now we expect you to become a rapist!" Well yes, even professionals Struggle to acknowledge that women can be perpetrators.[0] 0: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/08/20/women_sex_offenders_often_go_unrecognized_and_unreported_new_book_says.html?rf https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/08/20/women_sex_off...
jimbob45 5y ago
It’s fun to think in black-and-white terms like this but surely you can understand that there are (infrequently) gray scenarios that come up where your simplistic morality falls apart. I agree with your theory but I would never blindly convict someone based on it in practice.
- phone8675309 5y ago
  Can you be specific about where the parent comment is engaging in black and white thinking? I’d also argue that thinking about the morality of rape isn’t "fun".
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    The fun in the sentence points to “thinking in black and white terms” not about the morality of rape. It captures a larger set of all “thinking in black and white” instead the subset of what the specific instance was. English is funny that way.
kbos87 5y ago
Thanks for pointing it out. The fact that it’s “uncool” to do this also points out that there are a lot of ways that men are oppressed by gender stereotypes and the victim-perpetrator narratives that our society has barely begun to reckon with.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
I don't think it's uncool, there's still a double standard about sexual abuse of boys by women in media, and it plays into gender roles that harm women as well as men. A man in my antenatal class informed Police about being sexually abused by his dance teacher as a child, and never mind their backward mindset, it exposed a flaw in our laws where women were not perceived as being capable of being sexual predators. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dance-star-tells-of-sexual-abuse-ordeal/LXDWS4MPNEXWPUYO2RQQLFATWE/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dance-star-tells-of-sexual-abu...

DoreenMichele 5y ago

At the very least, juvenile victims of sexual assault are more likely to become adult perpetrators. Do you have a citation for that? I'm aware of head injuries playing a role in a lot of terrible crimes, but I've not heard this assertion before that victims of sexual assault are at greater than average risk of becoming rapists themselves.

dleslie 5y ago
Sure, it's called the victim-to-perpetrator cycle; first thing that came up for me was the Government of QC fact sheet: https://www.inspq.qc.ca/en/sexual-assault/fact-sheets/sexual-abuse-childhood-perpetrators https://www.inspq.qc.ca/en/sexual-assault/fact-sheets/sexual...
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Thank you. But quotes from your own source: While a history of sexual victimization seems to be one of the risk factors that predispose an individual to commit sexual assault, it does not provide sufficient explanation for most instances of this type of assault. There is relatively little evidence that the victim-to-perpetrator cycle is a major factor in sexual assault. These boys should be protected from being raped because they shouldn't be raped. Period.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    It's a factor, not a major factor. Further on in the document, it states: > Experts maintain that, in the case of males, being sexually abused in childhood is an important risk factor for committing sexual assault later on in life, but that it is not the only risk factor that plays a role in the perpetration of sexual assault.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I spent a lot of years reading all the research I could find. Victims of abuse of any kind fairly often get additional baggage heaped on them that they are now damaged goods and monsters who are highly likely to abuse others because of what was done to them. I used to see the statistic that about 30 percent of children who grow up in abusive families will go on to abuse their own children while only 5 or 6 percent of "normal" people abuse their kids. I generally like to turn that around and say "So you're telling me that in spite of learning all the wrong lessons, two-thirds of victims will be good parents and with no justification whatsoever, five or six percent of normal people will abuse their own kids for no real reason." I am also hearing subtext for "We shouldn't let boys get raped because men are inherently bad people inclined to become rapists. Think about da womenz. These boys should be protected to protect women from them in the future." I don't think it adds anything of real value to this discussion of the very real issue of boys being sexually assaulted while in legal custody. Boys already face more shame and stigmatization than girls without being told "And now we expect you to become a rapist!" I've seen comments by male victims over the years on HN about how much baggage they deal with. It's generally much worse than what I had to wash off and it was mostly men who helped me wash it off. So I don't much like seeing this minor factor talked about in this way given all that context.
      - dleslie 5y ago
        > Think about da womenz. Sadly, this is an effective means to have positive action for men gain acceptance. > Boys already face more shame and stigmatization than girls without being told "And now we expect you to become a rapist!" Well yes, even professionals Struggle to acknowledge that women can be perpetrators.[0] 0: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/08/20/women_sex_offenders_often_go_unrecognized_and_unreported_new_book_says.html?rf https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/08/20/women_sex_off...

jimbob45 5y ago

It’s fun to think in black-and-white terms like this but surely you can understand that there are (infrequently) gray scenarios that come up where your simplistic morality falls apart. I agree with your theory but I would never blindly convict someone based on it in practice.

phone8675309 5y ago
Can you be specific about where the parent comment is engaging in black and white thinking? I’d also argue that thinking about the morality of rape isn’t "fun".
- Jcowell 5y ago
  The fun in the sentence points to “thinking in black and white terms” not about the morality of rape. It captures a larger set of all “thinking in black and white” instead the subset of what the specific instance was. English is funny that way.

kbos87 5y ago

Thanks for pointing it out. The fact that it’s “uncool” to do this also points out that there are a lot of ways that men are oppressed by gender stereotypes and the victim-perpetrator narratives that our society has barely begun to reckon with.

EdwardDiego 5y ago

I don't think it's uncool, there's still a double standard about sexual abuse of boys by women in media, and it plays into gender roles that harm women as well as men. A man in my antenatal class informed Police about being sexually abused by his dance teacher as a child, and never mind their backward mindset, it exposed a flaw in our laws where women were not perceived as being capable of being sexual predators. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dance-star-tells-of-sexual-abuse-ordeal/LXDWS4MPNEXWPUYO2RQQLFATWE/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dance-star-tells-of-sexual-abu...