5 ms·

Heating flash media can repair the oxide layer, depending upon temperature and duration. In 2012, research on short bursts of 800°C heat could vastly extend me

by chasil 5y ago

Heating flash media can repair the oxide layer, depending upon temperature and duration. In 2012, research on short bursts of 800°C heat could vastly extend media lifetime. Supposedly 250° for several hours has the same effect (assuming the packaging can withstand it). In view of the shortages of recent years, we should mandate some form of this technology so we don't waste foundary output on throw-away parts (planned obsolescence). https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/storage/48893-making-flash-memory-reliable-800c-heat-pulses/ https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/storage/48893-making-flash-mem...

nine_k 5y ago
At 250°C, all components would desolder from the PCB. Provided that the components are attached at one side, one would need to be very careful while heating and cooling the device.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  > Provided that the components are attached at one side Unlikely with the tiny size of these devices. I am sure there are tons, but that most will have components on the A and B side. However… the same reasons that this works to assemble in reflow, are the same reasons it MIGHT not be an issue here. Surface tension keeps the hot upside-down parts where they should be when their solder is molten. So if you have the right conditions, and you have the correct side-up, it should be no more of an issue to reflow a two sided part than a one. This is likely how it was made to begin with, the boards run down the line twice and the second time the upside parts have molten solder. Obviously there would be issues for things touching components like the enclosure or tape/sticker bridging multiple parts. And fwiw to anyone… you determine “which side is up” by the weight of the components. If one side has a heavy part that won’t be held in place by surface tension, that’s the top side. I wouldn’t do any of this for some internet-rumor that your drive will last longer, but I do know enough about two sided reflow to offer the above. Edit: lol classic
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  If it's not disturbed it could survive this, but ideally you can reduce the temperature just a bit further and increase the time period (though for some processes there is a temperature floor) so you don't liquefy the solder. If you just heat it and don't disturb the surface it should survive, but I'mma have to look up tin oxidation again. It might foam. Would be interesting to have media with a self-heating cycle.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    Playing with temperatures over 150 C on electronic parts is a lottery. Even if they survive, you may get in trouble later.
- userbinator 5y ago
  Perhaps "annealing heaters" could be integrated on-die, and the bursts of heat controlled to be short enough that they don't change the external package temperature much if at all.
dunmalg 5y ago
>we should mandate some form of this technology so we don't waste foundary output on throw-away parts (planned obsolescence). That's not planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence is INTENTIONALLY rendering a product unusable/undesirable in order to sell more product. A prime example is changing the chapter questions in a college textbook to force new students to buy new books that teach the same thing. Things that are NOT planned obsolescence but people mistakenly think they are include cheap inkjet printers (they last as long as any reasonable person should expect).... or NOT including an expensive oxide layer regenerating heater in a THUMB DRIVE that's only intended for casual file transfers, not long term storage of frequently changing data. Ans really, does it make sense to MANDATE a complex heating scheme for flash drives? The way drive capacity and usage continuously scales upwards, old drives would be pointless long before they died. Do you REALLY still use old 32 megabyte flash memory in today's age of terabyte drives?
- cosmotic 5y ago
  Knowing about a solution but not implementing it is pretty darn near close intentionally rendering the product undesirable if not exactly that.
  - ivegotnoaccount 5y ago
    For the case of those USB keys: Would you prefer for everyone to bear the seemingly high cost of having such a system, whereas you probably never had a thumb drive fail nor know someone that has ? (You may, but if that's the case you are sadly part of the outliers)
    - cosmotic 5y ago
      I've had 6 or so USB disks fail inexplicably. Sounds like the proposal is a heater and a timer that are embedded on the stick. That doesn't sound like high cost. I suspect theres a timer and thermometer already on the sticks, that leaves just a heater, which are super cheap.
      - 5y ago

by chasil 5y ago

nine_k 5y ago

At 250°C, all components would desolder from the PCB. Provided that the components are attached at one side, one would need to be very careful while heating and cooling the device.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
> Provided that the components are attached at one side Unlikely with the tiny size of these devices. I am sure there are tons, but that most will have components on the A and B side. However… the same reasons that this works to assemble in reflow, are the same reasons it MIGHT not be an issue here. Surface tension keeps the hot upside-down parts where they should be when their solder is molten. So if you have the right conditions, and you have the correct side-up, it should be no more of an issue to reflow a two sided part than a one. This is likely how it was made to begin with, the boards run down the line twice and the second time the upside parts have molten solder. Obviously there would be issues for things touching components like the enclosure or tape/sticker bridging multiple parts. And fwiw to anyone… you determine “which side is up” by the weight of the components. If one side has a heavy part that won’t be held in place by surface tension, that’s the top side. I wouldn’t do any of this for some internet-rumor that your drive will last longer, but I do know enough about two sided reflow to offer the above. Edit: lol classic
R0b0t1 5y ago
If it's not disturbed it could survive this, but ideally you can reduce the temperature just a bit further and increase the time period (though for some processes there is a temperature floor) so you don't liquefy the solder. If you just heat it and don't disturb the surface it should survive, but I'mma have to look up tin oxidation again. It might foam. Would be interesting to have media with a self-heating cycle.
- hulitu 5y ago
  Playing with temperatures over 150 C on electronic parts is a lottery. Even if they survive, you may get in trouble later.
userbinator 5y ago
Perhaps "annealing heaters" could be integrated on-die, and the bursts of heat controlled to be short enough that they don't change the external package temperature much if at all.

dunmalg 5y ago

>we should mandate some form of this technology so we don't waste foundary output on throw-away parts (planned obsolescence). That's not planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence is INTENTIONALLY rendering a product unusable/undesirable in order to sell more product. A prime example is changing the chapter questions in a college textbook to force new students to buy new books that teach the same thing. Things that are NOT planned obsolescence but people mistakenly think they are include cheap inkjet printers (they last as long as any reasonable person should expect).... or NOT including an expensive oxide layer regenerating heater in a THUMB DRIVE that's only intended for casual file transfers, not long term storage of frequently changing data. Ans really, does it make sense to MANDATE a complex heating scheme for flash drives? The way drive capacity and usage continuously scales upwards, old drives would be pointless long before they died. Do you REALLY still use old 32 megabyte flash memory in today's age of terabyte drives?

cosmotic 5y ago
Knowing about a solution but not implementing it is pretty darn near close intentionally rendering the product undesirable if not exactly that.
- ivegotnoaccount 5y ago
  For the case of those USB keys: Would you prefer for everyone to bear the seemingly high cost of having such a system, whereas you probably never had a thumb drive fail nor know someone that has ? (You may, but if that's the case you are sadly part of the outliers)
  - cosmotic 5y ago
    I've had 6 or so USB disks fail inexplicably. Sounds like the proposal is a heater and a timer that are embedded on the stick. That doesn't sound like high cost. I suspect theres a timer and thermometer already on the sticks, that leaves just a heater, which are super cheap.
    - 5y ago