5 ms·

I think Tom Scott's video about e-voting couldn't be more relevant today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDm

I think Tom Scott's video about e-voting couldn't be more relevant today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI

greypowerOz 5y ago
i still refer people to this also. He neatly summarises the core issues. People watching other people count marks on dead trees works great.
- smt88 5y ago
  > People watching other people count marks on dead trees works great. They did this twice in Georgia and it didn't get the conspiracists to shut up or change their minds.
ricardobeat 5y ago
The Brazilian design for voting machines addresses most of those concerns in a nice way. I couldn’t find a full description in English but Wikipedia has a few bits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Brazil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Brazil
- greypowerOz 5y ago
  respectfully, that article simply repeats variations of scenarios tom brings up in his video;) pick any part of the process in that article and ask "how do you know that the black box is trustworthy?" , in the context of assuming that some nation states have a vested interest in messing with the process...
  - treesprite82 5y ago
    It sounds like the random selection of machines for the parallel "mock election" is intended to help with that issue.
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    Unfortunately that article is weak on the actual security mechanisms. Each step adds a layer of security. To affect the results of the election you need to compromise multiple of them. Here’s a translated page that goes into detail: https://www-tse-jus-br.translate.goog/o-tse/escola-judiciaria-eleitoral/publicacoes/revistas-da-eje/artigos/revista-eletronica-eje-n.-6-ano-4/por-que-a-urna-eletronica-e-segura?_x_tr_sl=pt&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv,elem https://www-tse-jus-br.translate.goog/o-tse/escola-judiciari...
0x456 5y ago
There is also the Emmy Nominated HBO Documentary "Hacking Democracy", from 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy
enaaem 5y ago
Taiwan has the best vote counting procedure. Inefficiency is feature. Ballots are hold up, choice is announced and score is publicly tracked. https://youtu.be/cqKt-lPfJuw https://youtu.be/cqKt-lPfJuw
- 8note 5y ago
  The Canadian birch bark and pine cone system is pretty good. You just look at how big the piles are at the end
seanalltogether 5y ago
I like Tom but I think he's wrong to dismiss vote machine + paper receipt as an "expensive pencil". You get the best of both worlds with this option. The benefits of the voting machine give voters more screen real estate to view the candidates for a single race, more chances to correct their vote, and even the option to randomize candidate placement. You also get faster vote tally by doing it electronically. In addition if you produce a paper receipt you now have a physical backup to verify individual machines or precincts as a whole. You could craft policy to automatically do audits on say 30% of the machines before actually releasing the tally, with the option to do a full audit if needed.

I think Tom Scott's video about e-voting couldn't be more relevant today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI

greypowerOz 5y ago

i still refer people to this also. He neatly summarises the core issues. People watching other people count marks on dead trees works great.

smt88 5y ago
> People watching other people count marks on dead trees works great. They did this twice in Georgia and it didn't get the conspiracists to shut up or change their minds.

ricardobeat 5y ago

The Brazilian design for voting machines addresses most of those concerns in a nice way. I couldn’t find a full description in English but Wikipedia has a few bits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Brazil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Brazil

greypowerOz 5y ago
respectfully, that article simply repeats variations of scenarios tom brings up in his video;) pick any part of the process in that article and ask "how do you know that the black box is trustworthy?" , in the context of assuming that some nation states have a vested interest in messing with the process...
- treesprite82 5y ago
  It sounds like the random selection of machines for the parallel "mock election" is intended to help with that issue.
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  Unfortunately that article is weak on the actual security mechanisms. Each step adds a layer of security. To affect the results of the election you need to compromise multiple of them. Here’s a translated page that goes into detail: https://www-tse-jus-br.translate.goog/o-tse/escola-judiciaria-eleitoral/publicacoes/revistas-da-eje/artigos/revista-eletronica-eje-n.-6-ano-4/por-que-a-urna-eletronica-e-segura?_x_tr_sl=pt&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv,elem https://www-tse-jus-br.translate.goog/o-tse/escola-judiciari...

0x456 5y ago

There is also the Emmy Nominated HBO Documentary "Hacking Democracy", from 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy

enaaem 5y ago

Taiwan has the best vote counting procedure. Inefficiency is feature. Ballots are hold up, choice is announced and score is publicly tracked. https://youtu.be/cqKt-lPfJuw https://youtu.be/cqKt-lPfJuw

8note 5y ago
The Canadian birch bark and pine cone system is pretty good. You just look at how big the piles are at the end

seanalltogether 5y ago

I like Tom but I think he's wrong to dismiss vote machine + paper receipt as an "expensive pencil". You get the best of both worlds with this option. The benefits of the voting machine give voters more screen real estate to view the candidates for a single race, more chances to correct their vote, and even the option to randomize candidate placement. You also get faster vote tally by doing it electronically. In addition if you produce a paper receipt you now have a physical backup to verify individual machines or precincts as a whole. You could craft policy to automatically do audits on say 30% of the machines before actually releasing the tally, with the option to do a full audit if needed.