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> Look, if you just want to retreat entirely to a "might makes right" ideology, you can go ahead and do that. It's not an ideology. I'm saying that it's simply

> Look, if you just want to retreat entirely to a "might makes right" ideology, you can go ahead and do that. It's not an ideology. I'm saying that it's simply the way geopolitics works. The way things have been throughout history, including the modern era. It's what all the books on this topic talk about. Might does makes right when it comes to countries relations with each other. Countries act in their self interest. The strongest country gets their way. The law of the jungle. There's no judge or god for a country to appeal to or to enforce rules of morality. Ultimately there's only armies and allies. If the group of people running things in one country think they can dominate another country to their advantage, they do. That's why all large empires ultimately make so many enemies, causing their downfall. In this case I think that China wants to regain their traditional territory and expand their influence in their neighborhood region, and the U.S. doesn't want to give up an inch if they don't have to. At stake is economic and political influence in South East Asia. The rich and powerful care about that, not morality. I personally have a quite different ideology when it comes to these matters, but I'm not the one in charge. I wouldn't send people to fight a war over Taiwan. I don't think it's justified based on a fear of them attacking the West, nor because some people think China is evil. Is it better for China to quickly take Taiwan or for us to enable a war that could kill millions? If you want to raise money and hop on a plane to fight the Chinese over Taiwan, I'm cool with that. > Just be aware, that if you do that, you can't complain about anything at all, regarding any moral issue, what so ever. > And you cannot complain, when people, who actually do care about right or wrong, treat you equivalently to the worst of any political ideology that you can think of, and call you horrible political slurs, regarding the obvious bad ideologies that should immediately come to mind. I saw your comment above before you edited it. You seem to be quite emotional about this, and quite hostile towards me in this thread. You seem to look at international politics very differently than anything I've studied, and I'm not sure that I understand. I've tried to explain my understanding of the way the world works in this regard, but you haven't much explained how you think. Worst case I might assume that you just get enraged over whatever the news headlines tell you to, but that wouldn't be very charitable. I'm genuinely curious and have a lot of questions. How should a country choose what evil in the world to oppose, seeing as how there is so much? If we don't always confront evil, does that mean that other considerations are more important? Do you think that the leaders of countries think of good and evil in their calculations, or money and power? Does it bother you that the U.S. sometimes supports evil regimes? Or sometimes does evil things itself? I'm wondering if you have answers for any of these questions. I know a lot of people haven't thought much about this stuff.

stale2002 5y ago
> I personally have a quite different ideology when it comes to these matters, but I'm not the one in charge Ok fine. Then if that is the case, then you should have no problem saying "Yes, I completely and totally agree with you, that the people who want to invade Taiwan, are extremely evil, should be condemned, and the people and individuals who support that, are morally equivalent to the obvious extremely evil ideologies, that come to mind, and should be treated as such by society." If you agree with that statement, then great. In that situation, you reject that other ideology, entirely, and agree that such people, including individuals, can and should be treated the same as any other horrible evil political group, with all of the implications that this implies. > If you want to raise money and hop on a plane to fight the Chinese over Taiwan Whoa, I have already given other options. Such as for example, continuing doing what we are currently doing, which is to arm Taiwan, as much as possible, so that if a war breaks out, a whole lot of damage is caused to china. Such an action, would likely disincentive china from invading in the first place, which would be the goal. Arming the opposition, and economic and political sanctions and measures, are likely more than enough to prevent an invasion, without a war. > Is it better for China to quickly take Taiwan or for us to enable a war that could kill millions Or, instead of that, we could give them the ability to cause as much damage as possible, without us needing to be directly involved. Such a situation, would provide strong disincentives, that would likely cause china to not start the war in the first place.
- mikem170 5y ago
  > I completely and totally agree with you, that the people who want to invade Taiwan, are extremely evil, should be condemned Yes, I would condemn it. I think any group of people who want to be independent should be able to be independent. Also I assume the system in China is more the cause of evil, as opposed to all the people, so many of whom are along for the ride. But that doesn't mean I'd be in favor of going to war with China over Taiwan. > Whoa, I have already given other options. Such as for example, continuing doing what we are currently doing The main article that we are commenting on, and the start of this thread, was about defending Taiwan if China invades. I thought that was what we were talking about. Any chance of you answering any of those questions I asked? Or maybe this is one of those emotional things that are difficult to reason about?

stale2002 5y ago

> I personally have a quite different ideology when it comes to these matters, but I'm not the one in charge Ok fine. Then if that is the case, then you should have no problem saying "Yes, I completely and totally agree with you, that the people who want to invade Taiwan, are extremely evil, should be condemned, and the people and individuals who support that, are morally equivalent to the obvious extremely evil ideologies, that come to mind, and should be treated as such by society." If you agree with that statement, then great. In that situation, you reject that other ideology, entirely, and agree that such people, including individuals, can and should be treated the same as any other horrible evil political group, with all of the implications that this implies. > If you want to raise money and hop on a plane to fight the Chinese over Taiwan Whoa, I have already given other options. Such as for example, continuing doing what we are currently doing, which is to arm Taiwan, as much as possible, so that if a war breaks out, a whole lot of damage is caused to china. Such an action, would likely disincentive china from invading in the first place, which would be the goal. Arming the opposition, and economic and political sanctions and measures, are likely more than enough to prevent an invasion, without a war. > Is it better for China to quickly take Taiwan or for us to enable a war that could kill millions Or, instead of that, we could give them the ability to cause as much damage as possible, without us needing to be directly involved. Such a situation, would provide strong disincentives, that would likely cause china to not start the war in the first place.

mikem170 5y ago
> I completely and totally agree with you, that the people who want to invade Taiwan, are extremely evil, should be condemned Yes, I would condemn it. I think any group of people who want to be independent should be able to be independent. Also I assume the system in China is more the cause of evil, as opposed to all the people, so many of whom are along for the ride. But that doesn't mean I'd be in favor of going to war with China over Taiwan. > Whoa, I have already given other options. Such as for example, continuing doing what we are currently doing The main article that we are commenting on, and the start of this thread, was about defending Taiwan if China invades. I thought that was what we were talking about. Any chance of you answering any of those questions I asked? Or maybe this is one of those emotional things that are difficult to reason about?