3 ms·

I also don’t get why Kubernetes would be in any way needed in such setup.

rektide 5y ago
A lot of people don't see. I think that trying to turn a blind eye to complexity is a foolish mistake. There's so much you're given, that helps so much with out of the box Kubernetes. Logging & load balancing/services, and gateway/ingress, and daemon-sets and... how convinced are you that you understand these features well enough to confirm that you don't & wont need them? It also sounds exhausting to me to try to start from the basis that's what's good enough for everyone is too much for me. That, because we are scared of complexity, we're going to go bake our own systems, go back & re-assess less-popular less common less comprehensive options. And how happy are you knowing that the ops you do will be unintelligible to 90% of engineers? To me, getting to participate & share & work with other cloud native projects, to get to explore pull in the future, as it is happening, is an option I would give up for nothing. I also highly recommend this other thread I have, on how home-computing has never ever had a basis to stand from before, and how now that the computing community finally has it's first chance ever to grow good at ops together[1]. But I see enormous vast huge waves of radical retro-conservatism. "I don't know if I need Kubernetes" is a critical mindset that I think is worth assessing, but honestly, 99.999% of the time, you should use Kubernetes. It works fantastically well at all levels of scale, you can decide as you go what pieces you're going to want to make use of, there are super easy get-going-get-containers-started resources, you will have far far far more chance to bring in & use potentially helpful emerging technology. Please everyone: don't fucking decide to hike the fuck off to your stupid ass cabin in the woods computing environment cause you're all "I don't think this is needed." You are punking yourself. Asking what you need is a question you can harp on for a long time, but the risk of starting with the good comprehensive, proven, well-integrated, robust, scalable (low and high), known, well used/well liked not hard to start with default option is- I think- a low enough that you should probably just give it a spin. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28332604 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28332604
- zekrioca 5y ago
  I was referring to your specific use-case. I can go to k8s’ website to check its features, no need to list them here. It seems you are trying to create your own SaaS/PaaS to manage your home infrastructure. However, I still don’t see k8s as proper tool for this, because the scale is not big enough for such. Remember, k8s was designed with the Borg philosophy. But maybe you have a special case, so by all means, go for k8s. I don’t think anyone is scared of complexity. However, not everyone has easy horizontal scalable web applications. And most of time one just wants environmental organization and isolation, which containers/VMs brings. In home clouds I would see vertical scaling as a critical feature for efficiency in the limited infrastructure that cannot be easily scaled up. And today, k8s vertical auto-scaler isn’t anything but a disguised horizontal auto-scaler. Proxmox isn’t competing against Kubernetes, because by design k8s doesn’t support containers that run anything other than a single application/process that is supposed to be easily killed. If anything, LXD is the tool now competing with Proxmox due to its recent support to Qemu virtual machines. Although I don’t see what super advanced use case you have, I agree it is okay to run k8s on top of your Proxmox cluster. And you should check LXE limitations.

A lot of people don't see. I think that trying to turn a blind eye to complexity is a foolish mistake. There's so much you're given, that helps so much with out of the box Kubernetes. Logging & load balancing/services, and gateway/ingress, and daemon-sets and... how convinced are you that you understand these features well enough to confirm that you don't & wont need them? It also sounds exhausting to me to try to start from the basis that's what's good enough for everyone is too much for me. That, because we are scared of complexity, we're going to go bake our own systems, go back & re-assess less-popular less common less comprehensive options. And how happy are you knowing that the ops you do will be unintelligible to 90% of engineers? To me, getting to participate & share & work with other cloud native projects, to get to explore pull in the future, as it is happening, is an option I would give up for nothing. I also highly recommend this other thread I have, on how home-computing has never ever had a basis to stand from before, and how now that the computing community finally has it's first chance ever to grow good at ops together[1]. But I see enormous vast huge waves of radical retro-conservatism. "I don't know if I need Kubernetes" is a critical mindset that I think is worth assessing, but honestly, 99.999% of the time, you should use Kubernetes. It works fantastically well at all levels of scale, you can decide as you go what pieces you're going to want to make use of, there are super easy get-going-get-containers-started resources, you will have far far far more chance to bring in & use potentially helpful emerging technology. Please everyone: don't fucking decide to hike the fuck off to your stupid ass cabin in the woods computing environment cause you're all "I don't think this is needed." You are punking yourself. Asking what you need is a question you can harp on for a long time, but the risk of starting with the good comprehensive, proven, well-integrated, robust, scalable (low and high), known, well used/well liked not hard to start with default option is- I think- a low enough that you should probably just give it a spin. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28332604 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28332604

zekrioca 5y ago
I was referring to your specific use-case. I can go to k8s’ website to check its features, no need to list them here. It seems you are trying to create your own SaaS/PaaS to manage your home infrastructure. However, I still don’t see k8s as proper tool for this, because the scale is not big enough for such. Remember, k8s was designed with the Borg philosophy. But maybe you have a special case, so by all means, go for k8s. I don’t think anyone is scared of complexity. However, not everyone has easy horizontal scalable web applications. And most of time one just wants environmental organization and isolation, which containers/VMs brings. In home clouds I would see vertical scaling as a critical feature for efficiency in the limited infrastructure that cannot be easily scaled up. And today, k8s vertical auto-scaler isn’t anything but a disguised horizontal auto-scaler. Proxmox isn’t competing against Kubernetes, because by design k8s doesn’t support containers that run anything other than a single application/process that is supposed to be easily killed. If anything, LXD is the tool now competing with Proxmox due to its recent support to Qemu virtual machines. Although I don’t see what super advanced use case you have, I agree it is okay to run k8s on top of your Proxmox cluster. And you should check LXE limitations.