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I am not trying to excuse bad policing but in the US this is a chimera. You have the police, some are corrupt, some are a bad fit for the job, some are lazy an

by scrps 5y ago

I am not trying to excuse bad policing but in the US this is a chimera. You have the police, some are corrupt, some are a bad fit for the job, some are lazy and stupid, and some are run-down and underpaid. You have prosecutors making their careers on win/loss records and being tough on crime so they can make judge or DA. Ibid for politicians with tough on crime, drugs, etc. You have the prison system which has become big business, exploiting prisoners, their families, the legal system, and taxpayers. They do nothing to offer a real chance at reform, are dangerous and breed more hardcore criminals and victims. You have the media which at it's mildest still runs with "if it bleeds it leads", middle of the road "true crime" podcasts and series, and at it's most exploitive preys on scaring the shit out of people (nancy grace is a good example) that 'the bad men are coming for your daughters' and we have to absolutely destroy criminals at all costs. Then there is the populace who under no circumstances will forgive or trust anyone (background checks, public offender lists, mugshots) who has been convicted of a crime (really in the US these days you don't even need to be convicted, just accused of certain crimes and it is a defacto life sentence). I am not saying policing shouldn't be reformed but that is one small step in fixing a very large problem but it is a very convenient target to lay all the blame on, and it feels good and just because it is an easy answer that is popular because in the US we are really all culpable.

xmprt 5y ago
You hit the nail on its head with how widespread the issue is. When people say policing needs to be reformed, I think they're referring to the system as a whole. But also, policing is the source of a lot of these issues so if you fix the issues with the source then you can cut off the downstream supply.
WaxProlix 5y ago
Totally, let's focus on each of them - I don't think there's a gestalt overall approach that will solve this problem, but chipping away at each of these many problem areas might make some progress.
readonthegoapp 5y ago
good policing is impossible to achieve?
- xyzzy21 5y ago
  Like many things, you can't create a "static system" and get perfect results. That's what Checks And Balances are about in the Constitution. That's what iterative development is about. That's what iterative marketing/sales is also about. Most of the time, expecting a one-time, static, created thing to "fit" or "match" or "perform" well is moronic. Whenever you have a manager who wants things that have never been done (e.g. advertising, tech design, etc.) to be 100% perfect a priori (e.g. a Waferfall project plan), you will always fail. Iteration and feedback loops are the magic solution, along with having some "decent" and "obvious" good planning. An EE would call this a PID controller: predictive, reactive and presently aware forms of correction. So having restrictions on IQ for police is a self-evident form of "bad planning". Not having proper independent correction with truth and teeth, is an example of "bad feedback". So good policing must be a "process" and not some static imagined state based on statistic or metrics that don't have ties to anything related to the mission and goals (e.g. hiring minorities for no other reason but that you want minorities rather than on merit!)

by scrps 5y ago

xmprt 5y ago

You hit the nail on its head with how widespread the issue is. When people say policing needs to be reformed, I think they're referring to the system as a whole. But also, policing is the source of a lot of these issues so if you fix the issues with the source then you can cut off the downstream supply.

WaxProlix 5y ago

Totally, let's focus on each of them - I don't think there's a gestalt overall approach that will solve this problem, but chipping away at each of these many problem areas might make some progress.

readonthegoapp 5y ago

good policing is impossible to achieve?

xyzzy21 5y ago
Like many things, you can't create a "static system" and get perfect results. That's what Checks And Balances are about in the Constitution. That's what iterative development is about. That's what iterative marketing/sales is also about. Most of the time, expecting a one-time, static, created thing to "fit" or "match" or "perform" well is moronic. Whenever you have a manager who wants things that have never been done (e.g. advertising, tech design, etc.) to be 100% perfect a priori (e.g. a Waferfall project plan), you will always fail. Iteration and feedback loops are the magic solution, along with having some "decent" and "obvious" good planning. An EE would call this a PID controller: predictive, reactive and presently aware forms of correction. So having restrictions on IQ for police is a self-evident form of "bad planning". Not having proper independent correction with truth and teeth, is an example of "bad feedback". So good policing must be a "process" and not some static imagined state based on statistic or metrics that don't have ties to anything related to the mission and goals (e.g. hiring minorities for no other reason but that you want minorities rather than on merit!)