18 ms·

Even with body cams and cell phone videos, these boys are still lying. You can't reform this, clean slate.

by pope_meat 5y ago

spiderice 5y ago
What exactly do you have in mind when you say clean slate?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- erentz 5y ago
  I’d start by looking at overseas policing and taking lessons from them. Look at basing around something like Peelian principals. Find and adopt practices that discourage corruption, just one easy example here is to do away with overtime, cops become salaried and receive TOIL if they work extra hours but are not incentivized to make work. Actually ask questions and study things like, does carrying a gun all the time make an officer safer, in every circumstance? Is it situational? Does it make the public safer? Etc. Build a new curricula around these principals and findings from your studies, with state level police colleges for training. Then start building out a new state wide police service that over time absorbs the functions of various municipal and county departments. Existing officers who want can go through training and continue their careers in the new service, assuming they qualify. Set up an independence conduct commission to be overseen by the public, selecting a jury at random to review cases. (Not an elected position.) And of course, never stop actually asking the questions how can we improve what we are doing with the principals we have set out.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  That's basically like a complete software rewrite. If you don't change the environment this works in you end up with the same set of problems eventually. There are a ton of things that could be done to improve american policing. But it's just for ideological grandstanding. This is pretty much the same with healthcare. It's clearly f..ed up but just used as a partisan tool for to win voters.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  Clearly they wish to wipe them out /s
LeftHandPath 5y ago
To be honest, I don’t think a clean slate would solve the problem. Around the world, police lie. Salesmen lie. Politicians lie. Developers lie. Watchdogs lie. Generals lie. Priests lie. And innocent people get hurt. You are right that you can’t eliminate it from the system with reform. But I don’t think a “clean slate” will do any better either. The goal is marginal improvements, better checks and balances, etc. If you can’t stop a man from lying, the next best thing is to be sure you can catch him.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Build robust systems for accountability and oversight. Trust but verify thoroughly. This discourages the casual deceiver, but also identifies the motivated.
  - toiletaccount 5y ago
    ...and qualified immunity really needs to be gotten rid of, at least in its current form. there's no reason why a cop having a bad day should be able to ruin your life. also consider that as an citizen that's probably untrained in firearm use, you're liable for stray bullets that hit your neighbor when you shoot at a home intruder, while a cop is trained and on the clock, but has no such liability at all.
- pope_meat 5y ago
  Why not a clean slate and improvements/checks and balances together, because the current crop of cops have lost the faith of a lot of people. Google LAPD gangs.
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  >And innocent people get hurt. You're saying that everyone lies except for "innocent people"? Where are these innocent people you speaketh of? There's no such thing as "innocent people." Everyone lies their asses off, everyone. There is no such thing as innocent.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  They could raise the requirements to become a cop, and change the structure of organization. 1. Require at least a bachelor's degree in anything. 2. Nix all paramilitary training. 3. Make each cop civilly/criminally legally liable for for their third screw up. 4. Hire only people over 25. 5. Dissuade military personal, including veterans, from thinking they have a job waiting for themselfs after their stint is up. (We do not need miitiary trained soldiers. We need Sociologists, and Psychologists.) 6. Cameras should be on every cop, without a way to turn the devise off. (Any complaints could then be verified by a third party.) 7. Get rid of all out little police squads. A cops would be federally licensed, and trained. Preferably stationed where they are needed. In my county of Marin, most are not needed. 8. And let's be honest. Most Cops are just Revenue Collectors. They are not going to be there to save our lives. To anyone saying, there won't be enough people applying for the job. Come on? There are a lot of people whom would like to become Police Officers. It usually those people, people who just want an honest job, whom are not hired. Get rid of all the cowboys, and hire level headed people. Ban all high speed chases, unless it involves a kidnapping. Require all police to obey every road law we are expected to abide. Make all uniforms Orange, or Pink. At least we could see them comming, and the bright colors might make the right people apply? 9. I'm not going to debate. I'm sick and tired of looking in my rear view mirror, or trying to figure out what hedge they are hiding behind. I'm as white as they come. I can't imagine what minorities have to put up with.
baybal2 5y ago
Georgia did abolish the police once. It worked, to a point. "I Abolished and Rebuilt the Police. The United States Can Do the Same." https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/11/abolish-police-georgia-brutality-crime/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/11/abolish-police-georgia-...
- pjc50 5y ago
  Also the police service of Northern Ireland was rebuilt from the irrevocably prejudiced RUC.
alexashka 5y ago
Any line of work dealing with power are liars, clean slate. There, I've solved human nature. That easy folks.

Even with body cams and cell phone videos, these boys are still lying. You can't reform this, clean slate.

spiderice 5y ago

What exactly do you have in mind when you say clean slate?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
erentz 5y ago
I’d start by looking at overseas policing and taking lessons from them. Look at basing around something like Peelian principals. Find and adopt practices that discourage corruption, just one easy example here is to do away with overtime, cops become salaried and receive TOIL if they work extra hours but are not incentivized to make work. Actually ask questions and study things like, does carrying a gun all the time make an officer safer, in every circumstance? Is it situational? Does it make the public safer? Etc. Build a new curricula around these principals and findings from your studies, with state level police colleges for training. Then start building out a new state wide police service that over time absorbs the functions of various municipal and county departments. Existing officers who want can go through training and continue their careers in the new service, assuming they qualify. Set up an independence conduct commission to be overseen by the public, selecting a jury at random to review cases. (Not an elected position.) And of course, never stop actually asking the questions how can we improve what we are doing with the principals we have set out.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
That's basically like a complete software rewrite. If you don't change the environment this works in you end up with the same set of problems eventually. There are a ton of things that could be done to improve american policing. But it's just for ideological grandstanding. This is pretty much the same with healthcare. It's clearly f..ed up but just used as a partisan tool for to win voters.
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
Clearly they wish to wipe them out /s

LeftHandPath 5y ago

To be honest, I don’t think a clean slate would solve the problem. Around the world, police lie. Salesmen lie. Politicians lie. Developers lie. Watchdogs lie. Generals lie. Priests lie. And innocent people get hurt. You are right that you can’t eliminate it from the system with reform. But I don’t think a “clean slate” will do any better either. The goal is marginal improvements, better checks and balances, etc. If you can’t stop a man from lying, the next best thing is to be sure you can catch him.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Build robust systems for accountability and oversight. Trust but verify thoroughly. This discourages the casual deceiver, but also identifies the motivated.
- toiletaccount 5y ago
  ...and qualified immunity really needs to be gotten rid of, at least in its current form. there's no reason why a cop having a bad day should be able to ruin your life. also consider that as an citizen that's probably untrained in firearm use, you're liable for stray bullets that hit your neighbor when you shoot at a home intruder, while a cop is trained and on the clock, but has no such liability at all.
pope_meat 5y ago
Why not a clean slate and improvements/checks and balances together, because the current crop of cops have lost the faith of a lot of people. Google LAPD gangs.
France_is_bacon 5y ago
>And innocent people get hurt. You're saying that everyone lies except for "innocent people"? Where are these innocent people you speaketh of? There's no such thing as "innocent people." Everyone lies their asses off, everyone. There is no such thing as innocent.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
They could raise the requirements to become a cop, and change the structure of organization. 1. Require at least a bachelor's degree in anything. 2. Nix all paramilitary training. 3. Make each cop civilly/criminally legally liable for for their third screw up. 4. Hire only people over 25. 5. Dissuade military personal, including veterans, from thinking they have a job waiting for themselfs after their stint is up. (We do not need miitiary trained soldiers. We need Sociologists, and Psychologists.) 6. Cameras should be on every cop, without a way to turn the devise off. (Any complaints could then be verified by a third party.) 7. Get rid of all out little police squads. A cops would be federally licensed, and trained. Preferably stationed where they are needed. In my county of Marin, most are not needed. 8. And let's be honest. Most Cops are just Revenue Collectors. They are not going to be there to save our lives. To anyone saying, there won't be enough people applying for the job. Come on? There are a lot of people whom would like to become Police Officers. It usually those people, people who just want an honest job, whom are not hired. Get rid of all the cowboys, and hire level headed people. Ban all high speed chases, unless it involves a kidnapping. Require all police to obey every road law we are expected to abide. Make all uniforms Orange, or Pink. At least we could see them comming, and the bright colors might make the right people apply? 9. I'm not going to debate. I'm sick and tired of looking in my rear view mirror, or trying to figure out what hedge they are hiding behind. I'm as white as they come. I can't imagine what minorities have to put up with.

baybal2 5y ago

Georgia did abolish the police once. It worked, to a point. "I Abolished and Rebuilt the Police. The United States Can Do the Same." https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/11/abolish-police-georgia-brutality-crime/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/11/abolish-police-georgia-...

pjc50 5y ago
Also the police service of Northern Ireland was rebuilt from the irrevocably prejudiced RUC.

alexashka 5y ago

Any line of work dealing with power are liars, clean slate. There, I've solved human nature. That easy folks.