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Yes. The worst, most damaging sort of retreat is a disorderly retreat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rout The US forced it
by nate_meurer 5y ago
Yes. The worst, most damaging sort of retreat is a disorderly retreat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rout
The US forced itself into a disorderly retreat, where our troops are trapped in a small urban airport surrounded by the enemy. The perimeter is barely defensible, and the approaches are controlled by the Taliban, who are only marginally in control of their own fighters, let alone worse actors like ISIS. The entire airport is within mortar range, and most if not all of the landing air space is within RPG range.
The strangest and most damaging move we made was to give up Bagram Air Base outside of Kabul. Bagram was home to the US military for twenty years, and as such it was already set up to facilitate any sort of withdrawal on any desired timeline. It had a defensible perimeter, and enough space to shuttle and buffer the people we needed to get out of the country. We abandoned it before even starting the withdrawal, for no good reason that I can discern.
As a result, we and our European allies may now be forced to abandon hundred or thousands of our citizens, and tens or hundreds of thousands of our Afgan allies who are now prey to the Taliban. And as another commenter pointed out, both the US and the British handed the Taliban detailed lists of these Afghan allies, which may help ensure their slaughter.
Biden and the military leadership put the military into a position where there are no good options. Maybe not deliberately, but the incompetence is stunning in the truest sense of the word.
Note that Trump did a similar thing in Syria in 2019, and may very well have done worse if he was still President. The biggest difference is probably that he wouldn't have allowed as many of our Afghan allies into the US, as his immigration advisor Stephen Miller helpfully pointed out last week. And he certainly would have blamed the Afghans for their own plight; this again is what Trump did in 2019, saying that our Syrian Kurdish allies didn't deserve our help because they didn't help us on D-Day in World War Two, whatever that means. Beyond idiotic.
So that's what the US has to offer recently in terms of foreign policy. Two vain, incompetent presidents helping to set up the next Middle East crisis.
- nomoreplease 5y ago> And he certainly would have blamed the Afghans for their own plight; this again is what Trump did in 2019, saying that our Syrian Kurdish allies didn't deserve our help because they didn't help us on D-Day in World War Two, whatever that means. Beyond idiotic. Biden essentially blamed them too during his recent White House speech
- nate_meurer 5y agoBiden's been pretty tactless throughout this ordeal, but that's really not comparable to what Trump did. Biden blamed the Afghan security forces for surrendering without so much as a shot fired. This isn't an insult; it's just reality, and it's frustrating for everyone. Trump's barely coherent babbling was an insult to the Syrian Kurds that had no purpose but to save face. Keep in mind the Syrian Kurds are probably our best allies in the ME, with the possibly exception of the Israelis. And the Kurds are, as warriors, about as far as you can get from the Afghan regular army and police. They fight ferociously. They have no natural allies in the region, only lethal enemies. They have no nation, so a lot of them wear the American flag into battle. Trump yanked support with no warning and left them to be killed by the Turks. No thanks, no attempt at evac, no thought toward organized retreat or security. Just insults. Biden fucked up, but at least our military is scrambling to evac as many of our allies as possible. Trump would have pulled out just as recklessly as he did before, but Stephen Miller made it clear that Trump wouldn't even try to evac our Afghan allies. Sorry for the rant. I'm pissed at everyone right now.
- s5300 5y agoAt least, in his fucking up, Biden isn't calling the dead service members "suckers" and "losers" along with asking "what was in it for them?" per our previous Commander in Chief
- nate_meurer 5y agoI forgot about that, wtf. One of the worst things about Trump is that he set the bar so very low-- like right on the fucking ground low-- that all the incompetents and evildoers to follow will end up looking not so bad in comparison. Expectations are right in the toilet for the forseeable future.
- lettergram 5y agoThe withdrawal from Syria was a bit complicated by the military lying to trump. https://www.theblaze.com/news/retiring-never-trump-diplomat-lying-troops-syria https://www.theblaze.com/news/retiring-never-trump-diplomat-... It’s common knowledge the entire establishment hated trump and was going to do what they could to make him look bad. I’m not 100% who to blame on that front. But I personally didn’t vote for Trump in 2020 specifically because of that withdrawal. In the case of Afghanistan, this is 100% top generals & Biden. Until there are hearings we won’t know who holds more blame. One thing trump would have done is fired the generals immediately. They had a plan to withdrawal in may under trump - why? Because the local religious festivities would allow the US to retreat without being pursued. Instead, we pulled logistics and air support. Told all our citizens it’ll be fine (and didn’t inform them of the pending collapse) and then abandoned our best route out. This was... idk what to call it.
- nate_meurer 5y agoYeah I don't know either. I'm really at a loss. It almost looks like sabotage. The Blaze isn't typical reading material for me, but I'll note that the article you posted doesn't support the notion that the establishment hid the troop numbers from Trump just to make him look bad. Rather, they were desperate to protect our positions, our troops, and our allies in Syria and Western Iraq. And Trump wouldn't have fired anyone. He's too much of a coward for that. He didn't fire Mattis. Mattis resigned, and then Trump tried to save face by claiming that he fired Mattis. Sort of the way a six year old might. Biden doesn't have abject stupidity as an excuse. He smart, experienced, and not prone to recklessly disregarding the advice of his charges. And yet he fucked this up about as hard as something can be fucked.