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It is frustrating that there are so many stories of insane bravery, from Chernobyl to any number of war stories to this, where the basic plot goes: 1. Leadersh

It is frustrating that there are so many stories of insane bravery, from Chernobyl to any number of war stories to this, where the basic plot goes: 1. Leadership fails to plan for worst case scenario, because it's not politically expedient to act as though it might happen. 2. The worst case scenario happens 3. Brave people put their lives on the line to put out a fire they had no part in starting, that need never have been started in the first place And this certainly won't be the last such story in our lifetimes. Glad these guys are doing what they can, but it's shameful that their talents need to be called upon to clean up crap like this.

encryptluks2 5y ago
And like the police it is often in their best interests to make sure the worst case scenario happens everytime.
roenxi 5y ago
It is also a sad part of human psychology that it took this to get Afghanistan back in the headlines. The level of horror has probably been pretty constant from when the troops rolled in to now. It isn't like this level of failure is a sudden and radical surprise when it comes to Afghanistan. It is clear at this point that the US hasn't been doing anything useful there for the last 20 years.
- jacobolus 5y ago
  The war in Afghanistan was lost by the Bush II administration sometime between 2001–2003. They took what should have been an international law enforcement operation and turned it into an indefinite military occupation with no plan, no criteria for success, and no off-ramp. They dumped hundreds of billions of dollars in with limited accountability or due diligence. They had no clear separation between “good guys” and “bad guys” and limited understanding of local relationships or culture, and ended up killing large numbers of civilians and leaving a large part of the population and local social structures angry at them. The predictable product was a dependent and kleptocratic puppet government and military without local legitimacy or support, an endless parade of suffering, continuing local opposition, and ever growing apathy among the American public. US civilian and military leaders consistently lied to the public, and were too cowardly to admit their “mission” was an abject failure. And now all of the people who set up and supported this 20-year debacle: military contractors, hawkish congresspeople and DOD leaders, pro-establishment media, etc. have the temerity to claim that there was some kind of magical perfect withdrawal that the US military could have executed with no bloodshed or instability, and Biden’s administration were just too careless or pig headed to let them plan and execute.
Waterluvian 5y ago
I mostly agree. But I think there’s a bit of survivorship bias here. We don’t hear about all the things that go right.
koolba 5y ago
> Leadership fails to plan for worst case scenario, because it's not politically expedient to act as though it might happen. Not only was this the worst case scenario, it was also the most likely scenario. And it does not take a geopolitical expert to foresee it playing out. The shit show that has been happening there for the past couple weeks was completely unnecessary. At best it was incompetence on the part of the US leadership and at worst malicious with a goal of destroying what little international foreign policy capital we had left.
dfasd3423 5y ago
This is exactly the scenario for which spec ops are trained, what they live for. Specially rolling in for allies and friends. Politics has limits, you can see it in this case. For cases like this, you need warriors to step in. They're trained to handle themselves in the battlefield, you just left them go into danger, they'll manage to get out with the mission accomplished. Again, they are - good, brave - warriors.
- scottLobster 5y ago
  No doubt, but I'd rather save their talents and lives for missions other than cleaning up after the worst single act of US strategic incompetence of the 21st century. I don't know who's responsible for what, but this wasn't 9/11. It seems like there was plenty of information lying around as to the sorry state of the Afghan military/leadership. The fact that that information failed to make it to the decision makers, or that they chose to ignore it, shows that those in charge did not implement appropriate organizational systems at best and were personally incompetent at worst

encryptluks2 5y ago

And like the police it is often in their best interests to make sure the worst case scenario happens everytime.

roenxi 5y ago

It is also a sad part of human psychology that it took this to get Afghanistan back in the headlines. The level of horror has probably been pretty constant from when the troops rolled in to now. It isn't like this level of failure is a sudden and radical surprise when it comes to Afghanistan. It is clear at this point that the US hasn't been doing anything useful there for the last 20 years.

jacobolus 5y ago
The war in Afghanistan was lost by the Bush II administration sometime between 2001–2003. They took what should have been an international law enforcement operation and turned it into an indefinite military occupation with no plan, no criteria for success, and no off-ramp. They dumped hundreds of billions of dollars in with limited accountability or due diligence. They had no clear separation between “good guys” and “bad guys” and limited understanding of local relationships or culture, and ended up killing large numbers of civilians and leaving a large part of the population and local social structures angry at them. The predictable product was a dependent and kleptocratic puppet government and military without local legitimacy or support, an endless parade of suffering, continuing local opposition, and ever growing apathy among the American public. US civilian and military leaders consistently lied to the public, and were too cowardly to admit their “mission” was an abject failure. And now all of the people who set up and supported this 20-year debacle: military contractors, hawkish congresspeople and DOD leaders, pro-establishment media, etc. have the temerity to claim that there was some kind of magical perfect withdrawal that the US military could have executed with no bloodshed or instability, and Biden’s administration were just too careless or pig headed to let them plan and execute.

Waterluvian 5y ago

I mostly agree. But I think there’s a bit of survivorship bias here. We don’t hear about all the things that go right.

koolba 5y ago

> Leadership fails to plan for worst case scenario, because it's not politically expedient to act as though it might happen. Not only was this the worst case scenario, it was also the most likely scenario. And it does not take a geopolitical expert to foresee it playing out. The shit show that has been happening there for the past couple weeks was completely unnecessary. At best it was incompetence on the part of the US leadership and at worst malicious with a goal of destroying what little international foreign policy capital we had left.

dfasd3423 5y ago

This is exactly the scenario for which spec ops are trained, what they live for. Specially rolling in for allies and friends. Politics has limits, you can see it in this case. For cases like this, you need warriors to step in. They're trained to handle themselves in the battlefield, you just left them go into danger, they'll manage to get out with the mission accomplished. Again, they are - good, brave - warriors.

scottLobster 5y ago
No doubt, but I'd rather save their talents and lives for missions other than cleaning up after the worst single act of US strategic incompetence of the 21st century. I don't know who's responsible for what, but this wasn't 9/11. It seems like there was plenty of information lying around as to the sorry state of the Afghan military/leadership. The fact that that information failed to make it to the decision makers, or that they chose to ignore it, shows that those in charge did not implement appropriate organizational systems at best and were personally incompetent at worst