4 ms·

>You reaaaaallly would not like the uncensored internet. I remember the uncensored internet -it was vastly superior to what we have now. Vastly.

by rnd0 5y ago

HeckFeck 5y ago
For one, you could tell idiots (whoever you decided they were) exactly how they felt, without fearing retribution IRL. Keeping online identities separate from the real world worked both ways. It protected rational critics, trolls and shitposters alike. The problem never was anonymity or freedom of expression. No. Social media is when life online went into freefall. Curiously, a pillar of its business model is melding real life with internet identity.
uniqueid 5y ago
So were the people who used it. Times have changed. Maybe the last time you went to a bar you saw the bouncer eject some hulking meth-head, drool dribbling down his bib, for getting handsy with strangers and throwing a bottle at the bartender. Well, that meth-head has a social media presence today too.
- rnd0 5y ago
  Not really -usenet of old had stalkers and harassers; that's how the killfile was invented. That is a very, very good analogy, however. The internet of old had a wider variety of establishments that you could go to. If you wanted a rough-and-tumble dive bar experience it was there. If you wanted a polished experience it was there too. The effect facebook and other social media has had on the internet is the same effect that walmart had on small mom and pop stores -you can still find one here and there but no, not really. Incidentally, for all of the censorship and increased barriers to entry (for creating forums) your drooling meth head still presents a danger in the form of doxxing, inciting riots (Jan 6th, any one?) and harassing people.
  - uniqueid 5y ago
    Sure, Usenet had its antisocial users, and quite a few seedy groups, too. My point is that it's worse today... much worse. In the early 90s the net was mostly students, profs, tech workers and professionals. Think of the scariest person you've ever met (really, take a moment and actually do it) and ask if he or she would have been online in 1995; the chances are they would not. But they are now.
MonkeyClub 5y ago
Vaaaaaastly!
Hokusai 5y ago
It was not because uncensored content. It was bastly superior because there was a lack of comercialization. Before SEO, before targeted ads, an internet made by educacional institutions and people with hobbies. Nowadays allow everybody to post anything and you will only see SPAM for the rest of you life, it will become impossible to see anything of value.
- rnd0 5y ago
  I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you -you definitely have a point,though. From my point of view it's less commercial vs non-commercial (though I think most of the problems either stem from, or are aggravated by commercial factors) as much as it is diversity versus consolidation. Ten, fifteen years ago there was a greater number of varied forums and social gathering places with a greater number variety of viewpoints. Now while there's the odd vb bulliten board here and there you have fewer and fewer populated forums -everything seems to have coalescened (socially speaking) into twitter and facebook. Basically, from my point of view, Social Media has consumed the rest of the social internet (meaning forums). I think there's more than one cause for that but that's what I see as the main thing making the past superior to the present -the ability to not just have your own place, but to have a chance at it reaching out to more people than just you and your friends.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > From my point of view it's less commercial vs non-commercial (though I think most of the problems either stem from, or are aggravated by commercial factors) as much as it is diversity versus consolidation. There is a case where I'm pretty sure commercialization is the problem. Phone app stores are modeled on Linux repositories. Linux repositories are good. App stores are awful. The problem is the level of interest from bad actors, and the reason they're interested is the commercialization.
    - rnd0 5y ago
      >There is a case where I'm pretty sure commercialization is the problem. It's a problem, and yes -a major one. But I think that it's just one of many factors contributing (negatively) to the situation.
graeme 5y ago
Uncensored internet isn’t the same as uncensored internet now. Everyone is online and everything is trivially automatable. Mountains of spam, porn, violence, etc If you’d ever moderated anything halfway popular you’d know. Shadowbans are an essential tool. They can be way overused. But there is a reason everyone used them. Constant arms race between sites and spammers.

>You reaaaaallly would not like the uncensored internet. I remember the uncensored internet -it was vastly superior to what we have now. Vastly.

by rnd0 5y ago

>You reaaaaallly would not like the uncensored internet. I remember the uncensored internet -it was vastly superior to what we have now. Vastly.

HeckFeck 5y ago

For one, you could tell idiots (whoever you decided they were) exactly how they felt, without fearing retribution IRL. Keeping online identities separate from the real world worked both ways. It protected rational critics, trolls and shitposters alike. The problem never was anonymity or freedom of expression. No. Social media is when life online went into freefall. Curiously, a pillar of its business model is melding real life with internet identity.

uniqueid 5y ago

So were the people who used it. Times have changed. Maybe the last time you went to a bar you saw the bouncer eject some hulking meth-head, drool dribbling down his bib, for getting handsy with strangers and throwing a bottle at the bartender. Well, that meth-head has a social media presence today too.

rnd0 5y ago
Not really -usenet of old had stalkers and harassers; that's how the killfile was invented. That is a very, very good analogy, however. The internet of old had a wider variety of establishments that you could go to. If you wanted a rough-and-tumble dive bar experience it was there. If you wanted a polished experience it was there too. The effect facebook and other social media has had on the internet is the same effect that walmart had on small mom and pop stores -you can still find one here and there but no, not really. Incidentally, for all of the censorship and increased barriers to entry (for creating forums) your drooling meth head still presents a danger in the form of doxxing, inciting riots (Jan 6th, any one?) and harassing people.
- uniqueid 5y ago
  Sure, Usenet had its antisocial users, and quite a few seedy groups, too. My point is that it's worse today... much worse. In the early 90s the net was mostly students, profs, tech workers and professionals. Think of the scariest person you've ever met (really, take a moment and actually do it) and ask if he or she would have been online in 1995; the chances are they would not. But they are now.

MonkeyClub 5y ago

Vaaaaaastly!

Hokusai 5y ago

It was not because uncensored content. It was bastly superior because there was a lack of comercialization. Before SEO, before targeted ads, an internet made by educacional institutions and people with hobbies. Nowadays allow everybody to post anything and you will only see SPAM for the rest of you life, it will become impossible to see anything of value.

rnd0 5y ago
I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you -you definitely have a point,though. From my point of view it's less commercial vs non-commercial (though I think most of the problems either stem from, or are aggravated by commercial factors) as much as it is diversity versus consolidation. Ten, fifteen years ago there was a greater number of varied forums and social gathering places with a greater number variety of viewpoints. Now while there's the odd vb bulliten board here and there you have fewer and fewer populated forums -everything seems to have coalescened (socially speaking) into twitter and facebook. Basically, from my point of view, Social Media has consumed the rest of the social internet (meaning forums). I think there's more than one cause for that but that's what I see as the main thing making the past superior to the present -the ability to not just have your own place, but to have a chance at it reaching out to more people than just you and your friends.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > From my point of view it's less commercial vs non-commercial (though I think most of the problems either stem from, or are aggravated by commercial factors) as much as it is diversity versus consolidation. There is a case where I'm pretty sure commercialization is the problem. Phone app stores are modeled on Linux repositories. Linux repositories are good. App stores are awful. The problem is the level of interest from bad actors, and the reason they're interested is the commercialization.
  - rnd0 5y ago
    >There is a case where I'm pretty sure commercialization is the problem. It's a problem, and yes -a major one. But I think that it's just one of many factors contributing (negatively) to the situation.

graeme 5y ago

Uncensored internet isn’t the same as uncensored internet now. Everyone is online and everything is trivially automatable. Mountains of spam, porn, violence, etc If you’d ever moderated anything halfway popular you’d know. Shadowbans are an essential tool. They can be way overused. But there is a reason everyone used them. Constant arms race between sites and spammers.