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Because of the precedent that sets. For example, some would hold that socialism is as economically illiterate as anti-vaccine opinions are medically illiterate
by JasonFruit 5y ago
Because of the precedent that sets. For example, some would hold that socialism is as economically illiterate as anti-vaccine opinions are medically illiterate to you. Should socialist links be likewise censored?
- otterley 5y agoThe precedent that privately-run internet messenger services can censor content was set a very long time ago. You’re decades late to that party. Besides, we’re not talking about political opinions here. If they ever do that (which is unlikely), then we can become justifiably upset. That’s a hill worth dying on — this one is not.
- mgraczyk 5y agoAbout this case in particular, one problem I have is that they seem to censor the entire domain. Most of the content on that site is bad and definitely violates Facebook's rules. A lot of it is straight up lies made up by the site owner for political purposes. However, some articles on the site are just political opinions about the CCP. Because Facebook blocks those, I think the merits of this censorship at a coarse grain are worth discussing.
- otterley 5y agoWhen 99% of your content makes the rest of it look good, you willingly assume that risk. Nobody should be shedding tears about this. Also, censorship is forbidden only to the government and to common carriers (which Facebook is not). Private parties (with very rare and reasonable exceptions) have the right to control what others do with their chattels.
- anonnyj 5y agoGuess you missed all the 2020 election censorship since you're not in the present wrongthink category.
- lostmsu 5y agoTry sending https://thedonald.win https://thedonald.win via FB Messenger
- b215826 5y ago> socialism is as economically illiterate as anti-vaccine opinions are medically illiterate to you Edgy comment, but unfortunately, even with all the sophisticated jargon and advanced mathematics, economics isn't a real science with objective truths, but medicine is. Don't get me wrong, I too believe that capitalism is the only form of economic system that works, but to equate socialists (however misguided you think they are) with anti-vaxxers is a bit much.
- JasonFruit 5y agoI said there are people who would say that. Whether I am one is not the point.
- mgraczyk 5y agoIn this case, the linked article contains a lie. It's not an opinion. The article claims that a study had a result that it did not have (higher viral load amongst the vaccinated). The authors of the study have already published a condemnation explaining the misunderstanding.
- JasonFruit 5y agoShould Facebook block every lie? Where exactly does that line fall? How, anyway, do you distinguish with certainty between a lie and a misunderstanding?
- mgraczyk 5y agoIn some cases it's hard to tell where the line should fall. This isn't one of those. In general you can't distinguish but fortunately that doesn't matter. Facebook doesn't block lies, it blocks "known misinformation". The information in the linked article is known to be false, and it is harmful, so it's blocked.
- otterley 5y agoWhy don’t we judge each action on its individual merits instead? Why can’t we simply say “yup, this site is a problem, nothing of value lost here” without worrying about whether they’re going to block speech about whether 2 or 3 teaspoons of yeast is the right amount to put in a loaf of bread, or whether my candidate for school board is better than yours? Let me be super clear here: nobody is entitled to use other people’s stuff to make trouble or potentially harm society. Not your mother’s house; not Facebook’s messenger. If anyone gets to use anyone else’s stuff, it is at the owner’s pleasure and under their conditions.
- chillacy 5y agoI ran into this block last year trying to send a link with a comment like "wow this is wild, if this is what people really believe our democracy is in trouble <link>", that felt like a hinderance to even discussing the problem.
- tqi 5y agoWhat about links that call for violence / genocide? Should those be delivered to avoid setting a precedent?
- JasonFruit 5y agoYes, I would say so.
- tqi 5y agoTBH that absolutist position feels untenable. Unmoderated platforms are quickly overrun by objectionable content, and easily usurped by moderated competitors. The only way to force this would be through legislation, and I just think there is no way that the majority of people can be convinced to support/vote for that position.
- JasonFruit 5y agoThat's true of communities involving large groups of people; this is Facebook Messenger, which is mostly used for one-on-one or small-group chat, like SMS. SMS is not generally overrun with objectionable content, even though it is mostly unmoderated.
- betwixthewires 5y agoI want you to imagine for a second a conversation between two people, one that goes something like this: Person A: "I really don't think weed should be illegal." Person B: "Oh yeah, so what about raping rural villagers to death? I guess you think that should be legal too huh?" This is how ridiculous you sound.
- otterley 5y agoYou’re making up something that person didn’t say (or even imply, really). That’s not ok.
- tqi 5y agoI want you to imagine for a second that someone makes the claim that blocking links for COVID misinformation is setting a precedent. An obvious follow up in order to have a constructive discussion is to establish where the line is, ie whether the debate is a) whether blocking of any kind or b) what content warrants blocking. This is specifically relevant to Facebook since Whatsapp has been used in the past to coordinate/incite violence and genocide. So maybe stop and think for one second before commenting?
- noelsusman 5y agoPrivate messaging platforms have been censoring content for decades and yet I can still openly discuss socialism on any platform I want. Maybe we should evaluate actions individually on the merits instead of constantly focusing on hypotheticals that rarely come to fruition?
- JasonFruit 5y agoHypothetical applications are how you evaluate a principle. "Does the principle this precedent relies on hold up equally well when applied to socialism?" is a reasonable and useful question in that context.
- suction 5y agoThe currently popular idea of "setting precedent" is overrated, misused and an argument, and shouldn't be taken as "it will definitely happen all the time soon". The Japanese "set precedent" by bombing Pearl Harbour. How many seaports of the US have been bombed by a foreign power since then? The US dropped two nukes on Japan. Did it "set precedent" for nations to nuke each other willy-nilly in wars since then?
- wvenable 5y agoYou know what I say -- so be it. If they want to censor literally everything that isn't pleasantries and personal conversation I say lets do it. The world will be better off almost immediately.