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TekSavvy takes pirate site blocking battle to Canada’s Supreme Court

177 points by curmudgeon22 5y ago

sekh60 5y ago
I am always proud to have TekSavvy as my ISP. It can be a pain getting a ticket requiring a tech to be sent out since they lease Roger's lines in my area, but it's a small price to pay for being the customer of someone that stands up for its users and the internet as a whole.
- Maximus9000 5y ago
  Me too and I want to support them. Please give them a good review on google - they currently sit at 2.3 stars.
  - sekh60 5y ago
    I will do so right now. edit And done, 5 stars.
- xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
  Furthermore, their staff have continually been the most friendly, kind and resourceful folks I've ever encountered as a customer of any business. I worked with them to diagnose a neighborhood DSL issue years ago, and it really felt like working with some colleagues or friends, despite the customer/business relationship. At one point I was even getting internet for free from all my referrals.
  - sekh60 5y ago
    Their staff really are great, I love how active they all are on DSLReports.
- dhritzkiv 5y ago
  Ditto. They're the only ISP I've used that's automatically LOWERED their price at several times in the past, in response to certain developments (including the courts ruling in their favour about fees paid to the upstream ISP). Plus, none of their sales tactics are as slimy as RoBellCos. Hopefully one day they can offer a fibre option. But until then, they'll continue to be my ISP of choice.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
I like TekSavvy, but they have no gigabit offering. Upload is way too low.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  On how things seem to currently stand in Canada: TekSavvy, and other "independents", are reliant on the incumbent telcos and cablecos for physical infrastructure. They independents can access this infrastructure by paying a fee regulated by the CRTC (~FCC). The independents say that the currently approved fee for access to FTTH is too high, and that they cannot offer high-bandwidth services in a profitable manner over incumbent last-mile infrastructure. Teksavvy's various regulatory submissions: * https://www.teksavvy.com/policies/regulatory/regulatory-submissions/ https://www.teksavvy.com/policies/regulatory/regulatory-subm...
dane-pgp 5y ago
> If a site-blocking order is an available remedy, what analytical framework governs its use, and how must this framework account for the impact of such an order on freedom of expression? On the one hand, it's unreasonable to expect a court to specify a perfect algorithm for determining which sites can and can't be blocked, but on the other hand, the fact that such a dangerous remedy has been invented by the judicial branch, with no clear guidance from the legislature, suggests that the system needs to "fail open" by protecting fundamental rights, until the government can pass a law that gives some parameters to how this censorship power may be used.
- foerbert 5y ago
  I'm not sure how you read that as them asking for a literal algorithm (never mind a perfect one). They're talking to the courts, and they literally used the phrase "analytical framework." They're clearly asking for defined standards - who has the right to make such requests, what evidence do they need to provide, what actions can the court take in response, and how certain do they need to be in order to do so, etc. All basic ways the court does things, they're just asking for a set standard rather upfront rather than letting an organic hodgepodge form and then eventually congeal.
Waterluvian 5y ago
TekSavvy is not a great deal. But you get incredibly good tech support and they’re an honest company. I will, by principle, stay with them. Bell just installed fibre to the side of my house for free and want to give me “2 years of 1GB symmetrical” for $35/mo CAD. Nope. Never in a million years will I do business with you, Bell.
- mgbmtl 5y ago
  That symmetrical 1gbps probably had a 50 GB monthly quota. If you haggle, you can get unlimited for $55/month, two year contract, without TV etc. But yeah, I stick with Teksavvy. Only have Bell for a secondary house, where they removed their copper service...
  - Waterluvian 5y ago
    It was unlimited. They added fibre to our entire neighbourhood and this was a special deal related to that. I love the idea of a 50GB monthly cap on 1gbps Internet. Blow through that in under 7 minutes.
    - Pasorrijer 5y ago
      Good luck finding someone who can serve you at 1Gbps. Like seriously, I'd be curious who you've found because I never actually hit that except in speed tests :(
      - speed_spread 5y ago
        It's not about peak bandwidth for a single machine. It means you'll have so much bandwidth that multiple people in the house can be streaming full duplex HD video over VPN without having latency impact on those gaming at the same time.
      - l-lousy 5y ago
        I find that it’s generally the sender that has trouble serving 1GBPs, I’ve occasionally gotten it from my AWS instances when the result is in memory already
canada_dry 5y ago
TekSavvy's blog/newsletter is usually an interesting read. https://blogs.teksavvy.com/topic/choice-words https://blogs.teksavvy.com/topic/choice-words
- monkeybutton 5y ago
  >https://blogs.teksavvy.com/look-at-this-picture-then-look-at-your-internet-and-mobile-bills https://blogs.teksavvy.com/look-at-this-picture-then-look-at... Yup, this is exactly what I'm paying for by subscribing to TekSavvy.
Causality1 5y ago
Following a complaint from major media companies Rogers, Bell and TVA, the Court ordered several major ISPs to block Absolutely wild. The way I'm reading it this was not a court case where the site was sued and lost. A rights holder company filed a complaint and the court just said "sure" and ordered private companies to censor the internet. No trial, no evidence, no nothing. Holy shit.
- hluska 5y ago
  That is not what happened. Goldtv did not file a response to the statement of claim and went far enough to avoid answering to rights holders that the judge mentioned it in the order. In Canada, if you don’t file a response to a statement of claim, you waive your right to present evidence and the plaintiff’s evidence is evaluated as sworn. The original defendant failed to defend itself and then decided to ignore two straight injunctions. I’ve heard all sorts of people say that Canadian courts aren’t anything to worry about. They are serious… Here is the order: https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2019/2019fc1432/2019fc1432.html https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2019/2019fc1432/2019fc1...
  - Causality1 5y ago
    Thank you. The article didn't make that very evident.
    - hluska 5y ago
      I agree with you - the article seemed to jump to the conclusion without going through context. If you regularly run into the Canadian system, bookmark canlii - it’s an incredible site and you can drill down to read through history or up to read commentary! Thanks for being kind!! This has been fun! :)

177 points by curmudgeon22 5y ago

I am always proud to have TekSavvy as my ISP. It can be a pain getting a ticket requiring a tech to be sent out since they lease Roger's lines in my area, but it's a small price to pay for being the customer of someone that stands up for its users and the internet as a whole.

Maximus9000 5y ago
Me too and I want to support them. Please give them a good review on google - they currently sit at 2.3 stars.
- sekh60 5y ago
  I will do so right now. edit And done, 5 stars.
xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
Furthermore, their staff have continually been the most friendly, kind and resourceful folks I've ever encountered as a customer of any business. I worked with them to diagnose a neighborhood DSL issue years ago, and it really felt like working with some colleagues or friends, despite the customer/business relationship. At one point I was even getting internet for free from all my referrals.
- sekh60 5y ago
  Their staff really are great, I love how active they all are on DSLReports.
dhritzkiv 5y ago
Ditto. They're the only ISP I've used that's automatically LOWERED their price at several times in the past, in response to certain developments (including the courts ruling in their favour about fees paid to the upstream ISP). Plus, none of their sales tactics are as slimy as RoBellCos. Hopefully one day they can offer a fibre option. But until then, they'll continue to be my ISP of choice.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago

I like TekSavvy, but they have no gigabit offering. Upload is way too low.

throw0101a 5y ago
On how things seem to currently stand in Canada: TekSavvy, and other "independents", are reliant on the incumbent telcos and cablecos for physical infrastructure. They independents can access this infrastructure by paying a fee regulated by the CRTC (~FCC). The independents say that the currently approved fee for access to FTTH is too high, and that they cannot offer high-bandwidth services in a profitable manner over incumbent last-mile infrastructure. Teksavvy's various regulatory submissions: * https://www.teksavvy.com/policies/regulatory/regulatory-submissions/ https://www.teksavvy.com/policies/regulatory/regulatory-subm...

dane-pgp 5y ago

> If a site-blocking order is an available remedy, what analytical framework governs its use, and how must this framework account for the impact of such an order on freedom of expression? On the one hand, it's unreasonable to expect a court to specify a perfect algorithm for determining which sites can and can't be blocked, but on the other hand, the fact that such a dangerous remedy has been invented by the judicial branch, with no clear guidance from the legislature, suggests that the system needs to "fail open" by protecting fundamental rights, until the government can pass a law that gives some parameters to how this censorship power may be used.

foerbert 5y ago
I'm not sure how you read that as them asking for a literal algorithm (never mind a perfect one). They're talking to the courts, and they literally used the phrase "analytical framework." They're clearly asking for defined standards - who has the right to make such requests, what evidence do they need to provide, what actions can the court take in response, and how certain do they need to be in order to do so, etc. All basic ways the court does things, they're just asking for a set standard rather upfront rather than letting an organic hodgepodge form and then eventually congeal.

Waterluvian 5y ago

TekSavvy is not a great deal. But you get incredibly good tech support and they’re an honest company. I will, by principle, stay with them. Bell just installed fibre to the side of my house for free and want to give me “2 years of 1GB symmetrical” for $35/mo CAD. Nope. Never in a million years will I do business with you, Bell.

mgbmtl 5y ago
That symmetrical 1gbps probably had a 50 GB monthly quota. If you haggle, you can get unlimited for $55/month, two year contract, without TV etc. But yeah, I stick with Teksavvy. Only have Bell for a secondary house, where they removed their copper service...
- Waterluvian 5y ago
  It was unlimited. They added fibre to our entire neighbourhood and this was a special deal related to that. I love the idea of a 50GB monthly cap on 1gbps Internet. Blow through that in under 7 minutes.
  - Pasorrijer 5y ago
    Good luck finding someone who can serve you at 1Gbps. Like seriously, I'd be curious who you've found because I never actually hit that except in speed tests :(
    - speed_spread 5y ago
      It's not about peak bandwidth for a single machine. It means you'll have so much bandwidth that multiple people in the house can be streaming full duplex HD video over VPN without having latency impact on those gaming at the same time.
    - l-lousy 5y ago
      I find that it’s generally the sender that has trouble serving 1GBPs, I’ve occasionally gotten it from my AWS instances when the result is in memory already

canada_dry 5y ago

TekSavvy's blog/newsletter is usually an interesting read. https://blogs.teksavvy.com/topic/choice-words https://blogs.teksavvy.com/topic/choice-words

monkeybutton 5y ago
>https://blogs.teksavvy.com/look-at-this-picture-then-look-at-your-internet-and-mobile-bills https://blogs.teksavvy.com/look-at-this-picture-then-look-at... Yup, this is exactly what I'm paying for by subscribing to TekSavvy.

Causality1 5y ago

Following a complaint from major media companies Rogers, Bell and TVA, the Court ordered several major ISPs to block Absolutely wild. The way I'm reading it this was not a court case where the site was sued and lost. A rights holder company filed a complaint and the court just said "sure" and ordered private companies to censor the internet. No trial, no evidence, no nothing. Holy shit.

hluska 5y ago
That is not what happened. Goldtv did not file a response to the statement of claim and went far enough to avoid answering to rights holders that the judge mentioned it in the order. In Canada, if you don’t file a response to a statement of claim, you waive your right to present evidence and the plaintiff’s evidence is evaluated as sworn. The original defendant failed to defend itself and then decided to ignore two straight injunctions. I’ve heard all sorts of people say that Canadian courts aren’t anything to worry about. They are serious… Here is the order: https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2019/2019fc1432/2019fc1432.html https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2019/2019fc1432/2019fc1...
- Causality1 5y ago
  Thank you. The article didn't make that very evident.
  - hluska 5y ago
    I agree with you - the article seemed to jump to the conclusion without going through context. If you regularly run into the Canadian system, bookmark canlii - it’s an incredible site and you can drill down to read through history or up to read commentary! Thanks for being kind!! This has been fun! :)