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> If Apple wanted to lock them down there would not have been a better moment then with the M1. ... But they obviously decided not do to that. That's a laugh -

> If Apple wanted to lock them down there would not have been a better moment then with the M1. ... But they obviously decided not do to that. That's a laugh - what other OS can you run on the M1 today apart from macOS? It is as good as locked down already! Apple understands very well that this is a very lacking feature of the M1, and that is why Apple is very cleverly using those reverse engineering effort as part of its online marketing to mislead some into beliveing that Linux or xBSD OSes will be available on the M1 in the very near future. The sad reality is that even if the reverse engineering is successful all you are going to get are buggy versions of other OSes, with features missing, which will make you regret purchasing the M1 if you hoped to run other OSes on it.

rowanG077 5y ago
You can run linux TODAY, you can run netBSD TODAY. it's not fully featured yet but you can run it. Locked down has a clear meaning and macs aren't locked down. Ipads are locked down, Iphones are locked down. It's impossible to boot a different OS on those. Linux has ran for years fine on macs. I don't see any reason why it won't run fine on the M1 macs.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  > You can run linux TODAY, you can run netBSD TODAY. it's not fully featured yet but you can run it. Apple understands very well that this is a very lacking feature of the M1, and that is why Apple is very cleverly using those reverse engineering effort as part of its online marketing to mislead some into beliveing that Linux or xBSD OSes will be available on the M1 in the very near future. I can run a fully featured gui based Linux / xBSD / Windows XP on my 15+ year old single core Pentium machine even today ... that highlights how useless and crippled the M1 is in supporting alternative OSes. And that is simply because the M1 is as good as a locked down machine.
  - rowanG077 5y ago
    Can you point me towards marketing from Apple that highlights the ability to run linux or BSD? The reverse engineering effort has only been in full swing for 6-7 months, that's nothing. And yet it's already quite usable with the main thing not working being hardware acceleration.
    - webmobdev 5y ago
      Apple does "Shill Marketing" on online / social media platforms. "Someone who works for a business but pretends not to in order to seem like a reliable source is a shill. Shill marketing is the act of using a shill to try and convince the public that a product is worth buying ... The concept of shill marketing is simple. People tend to feel more comfortable with a product or service if they know someone else who has a good experience with it. If someone who isn't associated with the company tells you how good it is, the claim will probably be more convincing than if it came from the company spokesman ... Oftentimes, multiple shills work together, reinforcing each other's story and engaging in a conversation about how great the product is. ( https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm ). Only a locked-down system needs to be "reverse engineered". All Apple has to do to prove that the M1 isn't locked down is to either release hardware information that will help other system developers easily port Linux / xBSD or other other OSes to it. Or release drivers for other OSes (like it used to do for Intel based Macs with "Bootcamp" to run Windows).
      - rowanG077 5y ago
        Oh you are just a conspiracy theorist without proof then...
dev_tty01 5y ago
What "online marketing?" I have only seen them mention the very real OS level support for virtual machines. That is available today and works very well. I have not seen any marketing referring to bootable alternate OSes. I would be interested in a link to such material.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  Apple does "Shill Marketing" on online / social media platforms. "Someone who works for a business but pretends not to in order to seem like a reliable source is a shill. Shill marketing is the act of using a shill to try and convince the public that a product is worth buying ... The concept of shill marketing is simple. People tend to feel more comfortable with a product or service if they know someone else who has a good experience with it. If someone who isn't associated with the company tells you how good it is, the claim will probably be more convincing than if it came from the company spokesman ... Oftentimes, multiple shills work together, reinforcing each other's story and engaging in a conversation about how great the product is. ( https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm ). You are absolutely right that the M1 supports running other OSes through virtualisation. And Apple has promoted that fact and even suggested that as the new "Apple way" of running alternate OSes on the M1. Obviously many are unhappy about this fact, as older Intel based Mac even had official support for running Windows and could run many other OSes. Thus, Apple's online campaigns for M1 seek to counter the really negative fact that the M1 is a locked down system where you can't really meaningfully replace macOS with another OS (run another full featured OS on the bare machine, and not with virtualisation). They also seek to convince ignorant users into believing that the M1 fully supports Linux and other OS (or that it will in the very near future), which is plain bullshit because it is not in Apple's interest to do so. I am willing to bet that once the M1 sales reach a particular threshold, Apple will confidently lock the bootloader of the M1 - that's the only major differeciator between the iPhone / iPad and the M1.

rowanG077 5y ago

You can run linux TODAY, you can run netBSD TODAY. it's not fully featured yet but you can run it. Locked down has a clear meaning and macs aren't locked down. Ipads are locked down, Iphones are locked down. It's impossible to boot a different OS on those. Linux has ran for years fine on macs. I don't see any reason why it won't run fine on the M1 macs.

webmobdev 5y ago
> You can run linux TODAY, you can run netBSD TODAY. it's not fully featured yet but you can run it. Apple understands very well that this is a very lacking feature of the M1, and that is why Apple is very cleverly using those reverse engineering effort as part of its online marketing to mislead some into beliveing that Linux or xBSD OSes will be available on the M1 in the very near future. I can run a fully featured gui based Linux / xBSD / Windows XP on my 15+ year old single core Pentium machine even today ... that highlights how useless and crippled the M1 is in supporting alternative OSes. And that is simply because the M1 is as good as a locked down machine.
- rowanG077 5y ago
  Can you point me towards marketing from Apple that highlights the ability to run linux or BSD? The reverse engineering effort has only been in full swing for 6-7 months, that's nothing. And yet it's already quite usable with the main thing not working being hardware acceleration.
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    Apple does "Shill Marketing" on online / social media platforms. "Someone who works for a business but pretends not to in order to seem like a reliable source is a shill. Shill marketing is the act of using a shill to try and convince the public that a product is worth buying ... The concept of shill marketing is simple. People tend to feel more comfortable with a product or service if they know someone else who has a good experience with it. If someone who isn't associated with the company tells you how good it is, the claim will probably be more convincing than if it came from the company spokesman ... Oftentimes, multiple shills work together, reinforcing each other's story and engaging in a conversation about how great the product is. ( https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm ). Only a locked-down system needs to be "reverse engineered". All Apple has to do to prove that the M1 isn't locked down is to either release hardware information that will help other system developers easily port Linux / xBSD or other other OSes to it. Or release drivers for other OSes (like it used to do for Intel based Macs with "Bootcamp" to run Windows).
    - rowanG077 5y ago
      Oh you are just a conspiracy theorist without proof then...

dev_tty01 5y ago

What "online marketing?" I have only seen them mention the very real OS level support for virtual machines. That is available today and works very well. I have not seen any marketing referring to bootable alternate OSes. I would be interested in a link to such material.

webmobdev 5y ago
Apple does "Shill Marketing" on online / social media platforms. "Someone who works for a business but pretends not to in order to seem like a reliable source is a shill. Shill marketing is the act of using a shill to try and convince the public that a product is worth buying ... The concept of shill marketing is simple. People tend to feel more comfortable with a product or service if they know someone else who has a good experience with it. If someone who isn't associated with the company tells you how good it is, the claim will probably be more convincing than if it came from the company spokesman ... Oftentimes, multiple shills work together, reinforcing each other's story and engaging in a conversation about how great the product is. ( https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-shill-marketing.htm ). You are absolutely right that the M1 supports running other OSes through virtualisation. And Apple has promoted that fact and even suggested that as the new "Apple way" of running alternate OSes on the M1. Obviously many are unhappy about this fact, as older Intel based Mac even had official support for running Windows and could run many other OSes. Thus, Apple's online campaigns for M1 seek to counter the really negative fact that the M1 is a locked down system where you can't really meaningfully replace macOS with another OS (run another full featured OS on the bare machine, and not with virtualisation). They also seek to convince ignorant users into believing that the M1 fully supports Linux and other OS (or that it will in the very near future), which is plain bullshit because it is not in Apple's interest to do so. I am willing to bet that once the M1 sales reach a particular threshold, Apple will confidently lock the bootloader of the M1 - that's the only major differeciator between the iPhone / iPad and the M1.