5 ms·

Probably not a popular opinion... I first heard him read this shortly after it came out, and at first I thought it was great, but the second time I heard it, it

Probably not a popular opinion... I first heard him read this shortly after it came out, and at first I thought it was great, but the second time I heard it, it fell apart. This fell flat for me considering it was a commencement speech. It reads like it was written by a sad lonely man, for other sad lonely men. He was speaking to a huge auditorium full of parents and children, and he wrote something for himself. He couldn't imagine a world where there was more than his life, outside his water. The world of every parent in that room. I've always felt like he made his point in ways he never meant to.

nuclearnice3 5y ago
I really like your analysis. But rather than falling apart, for me, it reifies the truth of the entire piece. As Tarsul points out elsewhere in the thread, he was a profoundly sad man and killed himself a few years after this speech. At the end of the day, neither the old fish nor the young fish could escape the water.
Trasmatta 5y ago
Well, he was sad and lonely, and dealt with severe depression. He took his life a few years after this speech.
isamuel 5y ago
Let’s go ahead and caption this comment “On The Cusp of a Revelation (2021)”
booleandilemma 5y ago
Yeah I don’t see what the hype was about this guy. He was physically abusive towards his girlfriend, was creepy with her son, and he killed himself. Seems like a loser.
- nuclearnice3 5y ago
  I'm not precisely sure why you are getting downvoted, but worth noting the abuse is well-documented. [1] [2] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/the-world-still-spins-around-male-genius/559925/ https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/th... [2] https://twitter.com/marykarrlit/status/992735594060148737 https://twitter.com/marykarrlit/status/992735594060148737
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - maroonblazer 5y ago
    Perhaps it's because the parent can't distinguish between the person and the work. Show me someone who's produced remarkable output and hasn't done shitty things. The 'hype' is about the work, not the person.
    - nuclearnice3 5y ago
      > Show me someone who's produced remarkable output and hasn't done shitty things. Paul Graham?
      - mistermann 5y ago
        Another way of looking at it: what was DFW in a position to (plausibly) do, versus what he did, as compared to Paul Graham?
        nuclearnice3 5y ago
        I don't follow your comment. DFW had a girlfriend and allegedly tried to push her out of a moving car. No accusations against pg. Except hnbad who vaguely writes "Debatable" in this thread.
        mistermann 5y ago
        It's the perspective of roughly "maximizing ones possible achievements". Paul Graham is rich, connected, and inluential, to what degree (in percentage terms) does he use this to make the world a better place?
        nuclearnice3 5y ago
        Gotcha. Those who are rich, connected, and influential could all seriously consider our impacts on the world. I don't see failing to use your wealth well and trying to push someone out of a car as equivalent "shitty things."
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Have you read any of his essays or novels? IMO consider the lobster is one of the best essay collections ever and Infinite Jest is the best novel by an American since Ernest Hemingway. Yea he was an asshole, but his writing is good.
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    Thomas Pynchon enters the chat…
  - itisit 5y ago
    > Infinite Jest is the best novel by an American since Ernest Hemingway This remark is painfully cringe-inducing, and I can only think you haven't read very much at all. And if you think you have, then I can most assuredly say you haven't.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - psyc 5y ago
    Every time I’ve encountered this opinion about Infinite Jest, I’ve tried to read it. I’m not falling for this again.
fastball 5y ago
Children are the audience for freshmen orientation. Isn't the idea that, by the time you are being given a commencement speech, you are an adult? Isn't that kinda the point of this speech? "Society says you've finished school and you're an adult now, but it's not gonna be that easy".
porknubbins 5y ago
I really like this address but your comment made me reflect that what I like most is probably DFWs delivery and style rather than the content of his message, which I don’t find to be especially profound. But also, he was a writer and a often depressed one so when you invite that kind of person what you might get is really well delivered performance by someone who knows how to sound wise and not cliched- and in that respect I think he succeeded. Though of course it is true that after the relatively meaningful period of college (for many) the absolute mudanity of the adult world is like a slap in the face.
maroonblazer 5y ago
The central message of his talk is that one of the biggest challenges in life is choosing what to think about, and where to focus your attention. How is that a message exclusively for 'sad lonely men'?
sanderjd 5y ago
That's what they get for inviting a depressed existentially angsty speaker! He was never going to make some uplifting speech, that's not who he was. The speech is true to himself and that's a good thing. But yeah, as a fan of his, I wouldn't invite him as a commencement speaker...
mariusor 5y ago
I feel like it would be disingenuous to invite a chronically depressed man and expect an upbeat discourse about how exciting life can be in college. I think it's a defining feature of depression to fill one's consciousness to the extent where there's little left for acknowledging other things or other people. The works I read of David Foster Wallace's seemed different ways of him expressing his discontent about the world and how little importance he gave it.

nuclearnice3 5y ago

I really like your analysis. But rather than falling apart, for me, it reifies the truth of the entire piece. As Tarsul points out elsewhere in the thread, he was a profoundly sad man and killed himself a few years after this speech. At the end of the day, neither the old fish nor the young fish could escape the water.

Trasmatta 5y ago

Well, he was sad and lonely, and dealt with severe depression. He took his life a few years after this speech.

isamuel 5y ago

Let’s go ahead and caption this comment “On The Cusp of a Revelation (2021)”

booleandilemma 5y ago

Yeah I don’t see what the hype was about this guy. He was physically abusive towards his girlfriend, was creepy with her son, and he killed himself. Seems like a loser.

nuclearnice3 5y ago
I'm not precisely sure why you are getting downvoted, but worth noting the abuse is well-documented. [1] [2] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/the-world-still-spins-around-male-genius/559925/ https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/th... [2] https://twitter.com/marykarrlit/status/992735594060148737 https://twitter.com/marykarrlit/status/992735594060148737
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- maroonblazer 5y ago
  Perhaps it's because the parent can't distinguish between the person and the work. Show me someone who's produced remarkable output and hasn't done shitty things. The 'hype' is about the work, not the person.
  - nuclearnice3 5y ago
    > Show me someone who's produced remarkable output and hasn't done shitty things. Paul Graham?
    - mistermann 5y ago
      Another way of looking at it: what was DFW in a position to (plausibly) do, versus what he did, as compared to Paul Graham?
      - nuclearnice3 5y ago
        I don't follow your comment. DFW had a girlfriend and allegedly tried to push her out of a moving car. No accusations against pg. Except hnbad who vaguely writes "Debatable" in this thread.
        mistermann 5y ago
        It's the perspective of roughly "maximizing ones possible achievements". Paul Graham is rich, connected, and inluential, to what degree (in percentage terms) does he use this to make the world a better place?
        nuclearnice3 5y ago
        Gotcha. Those who are rich, connected, and influential could all seriously consider our impacts on the world. I don't see failing to use your wealth well and trying to push someone out of a car as equivalent "shitty things."
colinmhayes 5y ago
Have you read any of his essays or novels? IMO consider the lobster is one of the best essay collections ever and Infinite Jest is the best novel by an American since Ernest Hemingway. Yea he was an asshole, but his writing is good.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  Thomas Pynchon enters the chat…
- itisit 5y ago
  > Infinite Jest is the best novel by an American since Ernest Hemingway This remark is painfully cringe-inducing, and I can only think you haven't read very much at all. And if you think you have, then I can most assuredly say you haven't.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- psyc 5y ago
  Every time I’ve encountered this opinion about Infinite Jest, I’ve tried to read it. I’m not falling for this again.

fastball 5y ago

Children are the audience for freshmen orientation. Isn't the idea that, by the time you are being given a commencement speech, you are an adult? Isn't that kinda the point of this speech? "Society says you've finished school and you're an adult now, but it's not gonna be that easy".

porknubbins 5y ago

I really like this address but your comment made me reflect that what I like most is probably DFWs delivery and style rather than the content of his message, which I don’t find to be especially profound. But also, he was a writer and a often depressed one so when you invite that kind of person what you might get is really well delivered performance by someone who knows how to sound wise and not cliched- and in that respect I think he succeeded. Though of course it is true that after the relatively meaningful period of college (for many) the absolute mudanity of the adult world is like a slap in the face.

maroonblazer 5y ago

The central message of his talk is that one of the biggest challenges in life is choosing what to think about, and where to focus your attention. How is that a message exclusively for 'sad lonely men'?

sanderjd 5y ago

That's what they get for inviting a depressed existentially angsty speaker! He was never going to make some uplifting speech, that's not who he was. The speech is true to himself and that's a good thing. But yeah, as a fan of his, I wouldn't invite him as a commencement speaker...

mariusor 5y ago

I feel like it would be disingenuous to invite a chronically depressed man and expect an upbeat discourse about how exciting life can be in college. I think it's a defining feature of depression to fill one's consciousness to the extent where there's little left for acknowledging other things or other people. The works I read of David Foster Wallace's seemed different ways of him expressing his discontent about the world and how little importance he gave it.