6 ms·

Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation

42 points by ystad 5y ago

stathibus 5y ago
Have to wonder why a very well funded company would plan to IPO before they've delivered a single product. Almost like they are betting against themselves.
- adamnemecek 5y ago
  Or they need the money to speed up the development. In some sense taking any investment is like betting against yourself.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It’s Other People’s Money making the bet. The worst that happens is Rivian fails and post-IPO equity investors lose everything. Founders, early investors, others getting liquid took money off the table (presumably). You’re not losing or betting against yourself if you got liquid and someone else is holding the bags.
  - lmeyerov 5y ago
    current investors get a markup, leadership cashes out. if they can do it and market is frothy, derisks and may be years/never they could do it again, esp at these levels
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  It seems in this space actually delivering something takes out the magic and reduces valuation. Remember Magic Leap? Much better to push vaporware and cash out.
  - sva_ 5y ago
    Or solar-freaking-roadways.
    - nomoreplease 5y ago
      Who IPOed that idea?
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
Ironically, Ford, which is a big investor in Rivian, has a market cap of only $52B.
- birbs 5y ago
  Ford has a debt to equity ratio of 4.7.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    They also have selling products, not to mention that the Ford F-150 Lightning is easily the e-truck I'd bet to have the most sales until, say, 2025.
    - geoman123 5y ago
      they only plan to produce 80k in 2024 - lackluster to be honest
    - panick21 5y ago
      Only if you don't understand the constraints on battery and battery supply chain. The reason Ford is not actually planning to build as many as people assume.
  - christophilus 5y ago
    Ford’s debt is misleading. A lot of it is due to their customer financing operations, if I recall correctly.
- klintcho 5y ago
  I loved this tweet by Ross Gerber "So that makes tesla worth $8 tril by these metrics." https://twitter.com/GerberKawasaki/status/1431298116318158848?s=20 https://twitter.com/GerberKawasaki/status/143129811631815884... Some valuations are truly difficult to grasp.
  - m0zg 5y ago
grecy 5y ago
Elon's take: "Don’t want to be unreasonable, but maybe they should be required to deliver at least one vehicle per billion dollars of valuation before the IPO?" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1431522886456651778 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1431522886456651778
- deleted 5y ago
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throwawaysea 5y ago
Why would this company IPO now instead of waiting to have actual customers with products in their hand? I can only speculate that investors are forcing their hand so they can cash out as soon as possible, because they don’t believe in the company’s long term performance. Will retail investors be left holding overpriced equity?
- machiaweliczny 5y ago
  Most likely

42 points by ystad 5y ago

Have to wonder why a very well funded company would plan to IPO before they've delivered a single product. Almost like they are betting against themselves.

adamnemecek 5y ago
Or they need the money to speed up the development. In some sense taking any investment is like betting against yourself.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  It’s Other People’s Money making the bet. The worst that happens is Rivian fails and post-IPO equity investors lose everything. Founders, early investors, others getting liquid took money off the table (presumably). You’re not losing or betting against yourself if you got liquid and someone else is holding the bags.
- lmeyerov 5y ago
  current investors get a markup, leadership cashes out. if they can do it and market is frothy, derisks and may be years/never they could do it again, esp at these levels
spaetzleesser 5y ago
It seems in this space actually delivering something takes out the magic and reduces valuation. Remember Magic Leap? Much better to push vaporware and cash out.
- sva_ 5y ago
  Or solar-freaking-roadways.
  - nomoreplease 5y ago
    Who IPOed that idea?

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

Ironically, Ford, which is a big investor in Rivian, has a market cap of only $52B.

birbs 5y ago
Ford has a debt to equity ratio of 4.7.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  They also have selling products, not to mention that the Ford F-150 Lightning is easily the e-truck I'd bet to have the most sales until, say, 2025.
  - geoman123 5y ago
    they only plan to produce 80k in 2024 - lackluster to be honest
  - panick21 5y ago
    Only if you don't understand the constraints on battery and battery supply chain. The reason Ford is not actually planning to build as many as people assume.
- christophilus 5y ago
  Ford’s debt is misleading. A lot of it is due to their customer financing operations, if I recall correctly.
klintcho 5y ago
I loved this tweet by Ross Gerber "So that makes tesla worth $8 tril by these metrics." https://twitter.com/GerberKawasaki/status/1431298116318158848?s=20 https://twitter.com/GerberKawasaki/status/143129811631815884... Some valuations are truly difficult to grasp.
- m0zg 5y ago

grecy 5y ago

Elon's take: "Don’t want to be unreasonable, but maybe they should be required to deliver at least one vehicle per billion dollars of valuation before the IPO?" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1431522886456651778 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1431522886456651778

deleted 5y ago
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deleted 5y ago
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throwawaysea 5y ago

Why would this company IPO now instead of waiting to have actual customers with products in their hand? I can only speculate that investors are forcing their hand so they can cash out as soon as possible, because they don’t believe in the company’s long term performance. Will retail investors be left holding overpriced equity?

machiaweliczny 5y ago
Most likely