3 ms·

> I can't help but feel that you missed the point of my comment. New users should be encouraged to make those changes themselves if they feel the need to. If t

> I can't help but feel that you missed the point of my comment. New users should be encouraged to make those changes themselves if they feel the need to. If that's not something they're interested in, why use Emacs? This whole response is the reason Emacs is rapidly approaching EOL. You're putting the onus on new users to modify Emacs into a more beginner-friendly, standards-friendly editor? Their response would be: thanks, but I'll go try out Eclipse instead. It's not that new users desperately want to use Emacs. It's that emacs is losing userbase at a tremendous clip because its UI and design is so ancient and crufty and because the community leaders think that's Just Fine for Them. If the emacs community wants new blood, it's they who have to implement changes to attract it.

BeetleB 5y ago
> You're putting the onus on new users to modify Emacs into a more beginner-friendly, standards-friendly editor? Their response would be: thanks, but I'll go try out Eclipse instead. Emacs has grown quite a bit since Eclipse's first release. So yes, definitely let them try out Eclipse or VS Code instead. It won't hurt Emacs. See my other comment[1]. I've said it in the past, but there's a strange obsession HN folks have with comparing Emacs to VSCode or IDEs. SW development is merely one use case for Emacs. If you look at the last emacsconf, the majority of talks had nothing to do with SW development. Quite a few of the presenters, if not most, are not professional SW developers. Some of Emacs's most popular packages were created by non-programmers. Emacs will continue to grow even as fewer and fewer SW developers use Emacs for professional development. > It's that emacs is losing userbase at a tremendous clip Is there any evidence they are losing users? Why do people keep thinking this? As an Emacs user, I see a lot more Emacs packages being published than in the past. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28342477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28342477

BeetleB 5y ago

> You're putting the onus on new users to modify Emacs into a more beginner-friendly, standards-friendly editor? Their response would be: thanks, but I'll go try out Eclipse instead. Emacs has grown quite a bit since Eclipse's first release. So yes, definitely let them try out Eclipse or VS Code instead. It won't hurt Emacs. See my other comment[1]. I've said it in the past, but there's a strange obsession HN folks have with comparing Emacs to VSCode or IDEs. SW development is merely one use case for Emacs. If you look at the last emacsconf, the majority of talks had nothing to do with SW development. Quite a few of the presenters, if not most, are not professional SW developers. Some of Emacs's most popular packages were created by non-programmers. Emacs will continue to grow even as fewer and fewer SW developers use Emacs for professional development. > It's that emacs is losing userbase at a tremendous clip Is there any evidence they are losing users? Why do people keep thinking this? As an Emacs user, I see a lot more Emacs packages being published than in the past. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28342477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28342477