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Speaking of fact checking, this whole post needs a _citation needed_. I don't recall fact checkers _ever_ say masks below N95 "doesn't work". There was a brief

by kortex 5y ago

Speaking of fact checking, this whole post needs a _citation needed_. I don't recall fact checkers _ever_ say masks below N95 "doesn't work". There was a brief period where mask wearing wasn't recommended, in a possibly ill-suited ploy to prevent hoarding. I don't recall fact checkers ever saying the lab theory was "preposterous", only that it was unsupported by evidence at the time. I don't recall fact checkers ever saying the vaccine "stops" the virus spread, only that it dramatically reduces transmission. There was always concerns about variant escape from like, April 2020. Addition: Clearly, there is a disconnect between what I experienced "fact checkers" saying, and you, or others, experienced. Using the phrasing "fact checkers said X" is extremely veridical in tone, and opens the door for lots of clashing with anyone (such as myself) with differing observations. Also, when you say "fact checkers did X", are you speaking for _all_ fact checkers? Some? Which ones? It's an epistemological mine field. Addition 2, before I get nit-picked over the "masks don't work". OP's statement is: > In early 2020, the fact checkers told us that anything less than an N95 mask doesn't work. The fact checkers of today tell us that any face mask prevents the transmission of the virus... So I interpret "work" here to mean "prevent transmission of the virus." I remember extremely distinctly at the time the recommended guidance, because my aunt asked about whether she should wear a mask. I told her, as was guidance at the time, late Feb 2020, that a typical surgical mask would not dramatically reduce her risk of contracting COVID, she would need a respirator (N95), and at this point in time, unless you were high risk, this was probably overkill. Cases were rare enough that your best bet at the time was handwashing and social distancing. Then, two weeks later, around Mar 14, I told her "yeah actually you should be wearing a mask around others, even cloth ones, lest you be an asymptomatic carrier." What changed in that timeframe? The number of cases in the USA started skyrocketing, and we discovered that COVID can be asymptomatic in a large percent of cases, and has a long incubation period. New information was acquired, the recommendations changed. That's how all rational, informed decision making should work.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Indeed. I really don't think it's helpful to say "Fact checkers said X" without providing proof and context. Unsurprisingly it turns out that social media - platforms designed to promote aggressive argument for "engagement" - are a very bad way to distribute public health information. Or reputable factual information about anything at all. Reality-based audiences will try to select credible sources. But everyone else gets a diet of anger, fear, hearsay, misunderstandings, shock-value anecdotes, lies, and noise. I think it's unwise to ignore how much of an influence this has had on what's happening now.
mcguire 5y ago
As it turns out, I apparently don't interact with media employing fact checkers all that much. Apparently, I get stuff from the horse's mouth. "I don't recall fact checkers ever saying the lab theory was "preposterous", only that it was unsupported by evidence at the time." As I recall, officials and experts were saying that the lab-leak theory was unsupported by evidence, while people were boycotting Chinese restaurants and attacking vaguely Asian looking people because they held "China" responsible for the pandemic. "I don't recall fact checkers ever saying the vaccine "stops" the virus spread, only that it dramatically reduces transmission. There was always concerns about variant escape from like, April 2020." As I recall, experts have always been saying that the vaccines were very effective at preventing death and hospitalization, but did not eliminate the possibility of infection and if you were infected, it might still be possible to transmit the virus. And yes, the effectiveness of the vaccines against variants of the virus has always been a question. https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru... https://web.archive.org/web/20210326123341/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210326123341/https://www.cdc.g... Could someone provide a link to anyone saying anything else? (I've previously posted articles about the history of the evolving mask issue.)

by kortex 5y ago

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago

Indeed. I really don't think it's helpful to say "Fact checkers said X" without providing proof and context. Unsurprisingly it turns out that social media - platforms designed to promote aggressive argument for "engagement" - are a very bad way to distribute public health information. Or reputable factual information about anything at all. Reality-based audiences will try to select credible sources. But everyone else gets a diet of anger, fear, hearsay, misunderstandings, shock-value anecdotes, lies, and noise. I think it's unwise to ignore how much of an influence this has had on what's happening now.

mcguire 5y ago

As it turns out, I apparently don't interact with media employing fact checkers all that much. Apparently, I get stuff from the horse's mouth. "I don't recall fact checkers ever saying the lab theory was "preposterous", only that it was unsupported by evidence at the time." As I recall, officials and experts were saying that the lab-leak theory was unsupported by evidence, while people were boycotting Chinese restaurants and attacking vaguely Asian looking people because they held "China" responsible for the pandemic. "I don't recall fact checkers ever saying the vaccine "stops" the virus spread, only that it dramatically reduces transmission. There was always concerns about variant escape from like, April 2020." As I recall, experts have always been saying that the vaccines were very effective at preventing death and hospitalization, but did not eliminate the possibility of infection and if you were infected, it might still be possible to transmit the virus. And yes, the effectiveness of the vaccines against variants of the virus has always been a question. https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru... https://web.archive.org/web/20210326123341/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210326123341/https://www.cdc.g... Could someone provide a link to anyone saying anything else? (I've previously posted articles about the history of the evolving mask issue.)