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I've spent my life mostly in the East (in places where housing is expensive (e.g. Singapore, Sydney, Hong Kong, Shanghai), as well as places with low cost of li

I've spent my life mostly in the East (in places where housing is expensive (e.g. Singapore, Sydney, Hong Kong, Shanghai), as well as places with low cost of living in Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia ). I have not been to CA so this may be a silly question: What if there are joint initiatives/collaborations between US and its Eastnern allies to sponsor and help people who are struggling on the street due to homelessness to start afresh with a job and a house in say, Canggu, Bali (where things are quite chill & they'll enjoy a much higher quality of life), etc, work there a few years, save up and do some rehab, etc, and then they can decide to come back to the States or continue their life there? I'm a school drop-out. In my early twenties there were times when I was really broke. So I would move to places with a low cost of living, charge up, and go back to the (relatively high-burn-rate) city life again when it makes sense.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
The US has a history of sending waste to other countries[1]. Obviously, homeless people are not "trash", but there is a similarity in your thinking: take something that is seen as a scourge and send it to other countries so that it's out of sight and the largest costs of dealing with it are borne by others (usually poor people). Why should countries like Indonesia, which has a per capita GDP of under $5,000 USD and no shortage of its own problems, take in homeless Americans, a good number of whom have severe mental illness and/or substance abuse issues? What's the benefit to the Indonesian people? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-pla...
- archibaldJ 5y ago
  > ...homeless people are not "trash", but there is a similarity in your thinking... Nope. No similiarity here. We can only solve the problem when we treat people with dignity. We shouldn't alienate them. They are people just like you and me. The idea is to lower the cost while improving living standard for them. > Why should countries like Indonesia, which has a per capita GDP of under $5,000 USD and no shortage of its own problems... GDP is irrelevant here. Indonesia, Thailand, etc have many cities popular with backpackers and westerners living a nomadic lifestyle. Fresh fruits and fish. Great outdoor. Nice beach. Cheap motorbike. Great landscape and nature. Low-stress. It can be a joint social venture set up by NGOs. We will need really smart founders to structure things in a way that will benefit the local economy there, while giving a decent life to those who were originally living on the street. A life with diginity e.g. where they do volunteer work in rehab (eg cooking), or as a craftman, an English teacher, a botanist, an entheogenesis research assistant, etc.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    So all the homeless need is a tropical vacation? I'm an expat myself and while not a backpacker, I have traveled extensively in SE Asia. I can honestly think of few things worse than taking people who can't support themselves in their home country and shipping them off to SE Asia where they will be thousands of miles away from their family and friends living in a society whose culture they don't understand. If you send them to SE Asian nomad hubs, they will be surrounded in many cases by cheap booze, easy access to drugs, and hordes of prostitutes and shady locals and expats. > It can be a joint social venture set up by NGOs. We will need really smart founders to structure things in a way that will benefit the local economy there, while giving a decent life to those who were originally living on the street. A life with diginity e.g. where they do volunteer work in rehab, or as a craftman, an English teacher, a botanist, an entheogenesis research assistant, etc. Have you really spent time in SE Asia? If you have, you'd know that Indonesia and Thailand are very protective of their labor markets and are not going to be interested in sacrificing local jobs for the benefit of homeless Americans. In Thailand for instance, under the Alien Employment Act, foreigners are basically shut out from many of the kind of jobs you are hinting at. English teachers generally need a Bachelor's degree and clear criminal background check. TEFL certification is also sometimes needed. How many homeless Americans do you think will meet these criteria, and do you really think SE Asians want homeless Americans (some with mental illness and substance abuse issues) teaching their kids?
    - archibaldJ 5y ago
      Thanks for the critiques. I think for it to be sensible it requires a different framing to the problem. > ...they will be surrounded in many cases by cheap booze... > ...If you have, you'd know that Indonesia and Thailand are very protective of their labor markets... > ....do you really think SE Asians want homeless Americans (some with mental illness and substance abuse issues) teaching their kids? Good points. Related questions are answered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28346353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28346353 > ...few things worse than taking people who can't support themselves in their home country and shipping them off to SE Asia... Also, we don't evict people and "ship them off". It's about giving them an oppournity with incentives to make a decision in their life, a new chapter that they can choose to embark on if they see it as a better alternative to being homeless in CA.
bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
Have you ever been approached by someone in a city saying they need money to get back to their town? Moving even temporarily is a great barrier to entry for a lot.
- bequanna 5y ago
  Are you talking about the panhandling gas can scam? They aren’t actually moving, out of gas, or whatever.
mbrodersen 5y ago
Wow. So you think that moving people who can’t cope in their own country to a foreign country with a different language/culture will improve things? And you think that other countries would be interested in importing homeless Americans with mental/health issues? Really? Have you ever lived, worked and paid taxes in any foreign country? Then you would know how hard it is to even get a work permit.
- archibaldJ 5y ago
  > ... moving people who can’t cope in their own country to a foreign country... Homelessness is a specturm. Some people may just need a lift-up, (or an experience that changes the way life is viewed so they can find meaning in it again [1]) to be back to managing a functioning life again. What you want is to give them an opportunity to be in a less stressful enviroment with proper shelters and foods. Addiction of any form (to cig, to opium, or to herions, etc, as well the more socially acceptable forms such as to sex, work, consumerism) is a coping mechanism for stress. It's counter-productive to be in an urban setting with the worst living conditions (ie homeless) which maximizes stress in so many aspect of your daily life, and then trying to 'cure' addiction and turn people into a functioning unit in society again so they can work enough hours to make enough income to pay rent. Perhaps it's more productive to view every homeless person as someone who was burnt-out and broke, and happened to run out of options in their attenuated safety net like getting a loan from their parents to pay rent. And from that on existing health/mental conditions/dependencies they had would often exacerbate, and it got harder and harder to break the vicious cycle. > ... interested in importing homeless Americans with mental/health issues... Mental/health issues are a spectrum too. And this is not about "importing homeless Americans". This should be more like a rehab/retreat none-profit program for people who are stressed out in urban American life to experience life in a more stree-free enviroment closer to nature to connect back with the plants and terrains (away from all loud, harsh and unhealth stimuli and mind-numbing concretes, smells and unfriendiness of an overpopulated city). It'll cost less than the War On Drugs, and if enough smart people are involved, we can definitely structure it in a way where on a long run it'll economically and culturally beneift all parties. > ...worked and paid taxes in any foreign country? Then you would know how hard it is... The purpose is to introduce a change of enviroment to a less-stressful one for them. Something like a training visa or work holiday pass (or even an education one [2]) would do. It would be easy esp when the orgs backing you have international recog. As an NGO, there are many ways this can be executed after fundings are secured. We definitely need to collaborate with local institutes in ways that make sense to them. It can also be something that has an element of spirituality to it (like a church or temple retreat that also helps with rehab), or a commune on self-sustainability (where they'll still have to do work everyday). I see this as the most pragmatic way to lower the cost of living while giving people a dignified living experience that would be much better (and meaningful) than living on the street in CA as a homeless person. [1]: this is why a change of environment can be extremely impactful to mental health. And this is also why psilocybins, etc, taken in the right settings, are useful for mental wellness. ) [2]: Can typically last 6 months to a year. And if we have 4 countries involved, that will be 2~4 years. After that there are many ways this can branch off. We can start off with 5000 quota a year to gauge interest (we'll make it easy for people to apply), and gradually scale up to 50,000 in 5~10 years, (while keeping track of how effective this is comparing to the alternatives).

LurkingPenguin 5y ago

The US has a history of sending waste to other countries[1]. Obviously, homeless people are not "trash", but there is a similarity in your thinking: take something that is seen as a scourge and send it to other countries so that it's out of sight and the largest costs of dealing with it are borne by others (usually poor people). Why should countries like Indonesia, which has a per capita GDP of under $5,000 USD and no shortage of its own problems, take in homeless Americans, a good number of whom have severe mental illness and/or substance abuse issues? What's the benefit to the Indonesian people? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-pla...

archibaldJ 5y ago
> ...homeless people are not "trash", but there is a similarity in your thinking... Nope. No similiarity here. We can only solve the problem when we treat people with dignity. We shouldn't alienate them. They are people just like you and me. The idea is to lower the cost while improving living standard for them. > Why should countries like Indonesia, which has a per capita GDP of under $5,000 USD and no shortage of its own problems... GDP is irrelevant here. Indonesia, Thailand, etc have many cities popular with backpackers and westerners living a nomadic lifestyle. Fresh fruits and fish. Great outdoor. Nice beach. Cheap motorbike. Great landscape and nature. Low-stress. It can be a joint social venture set up by NGOs. We will need really smart founders to structure things in a way that will benefit the local economy there, while giving a decent life to those who were originally living on the street. A life with diginity e.g. where they do volunteer work in rehab (eg cooking), or as a craftman, an English teacher, a botanist, an entheogenesis research assistant, etc.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  So all the homeless need is a tropical vacation? I'm an expat myself and while not a backpacker, I have traveled extensively in SE Asia. I can honestly think of few things worse than taking people who can't support themselves in their home country and shipping them off to SE Asia where they will be thousands of miles away from their family and friends living in a society whose culture they don't understand. If you send them to SE Asian nomad hubs, they will be surrounded in many cases by cheap booze, easy access to drugs, and hordes of prostitutes and shady locals and expats. > It can be a joint social venture set up by NGOs. We will need really smart founders to structure things in a way that will benefit the local economy there, while giving a decent life to those who were originally living on the street. A life with diginity e.g. where they do volunteer work in rehab, or as a craftman, an English teacher, a botanist, an entheogenesis research assistant, etc. Have you really spent time in SE Asia? If you have, you'd know that Indonesia and Thailand are very protective of their labor markets and are not going to be interested in sacrificing local jobs for the benefit of homeless Americans. In Thailand for instance, under the Alien Employment Act, foreigners are basically shut out from many of the kind of jobs you are hinting at. English teachers generally need a Bachelor's degree and clear criminal background check. TEFL certification is also sometimes needed. How many homeless Americans do you think will meet these criteria, and do you really think SE Asians want homeless Americans (some with mental illness and substance abuse issues) teaching their kids?
  - archibaldJ 5y ago
    Thanks for the critiques. I think for it to be sensible it requires a different framing to the problem. > ...they will be surrounded in many cases by cheap booze... > ...If you have, you'd know that Indonesia and Thailand are very protective of their labor markets... > ....do you really think SE Asians want homeless Americans (some with mental illness and substance abuse issues) teaching their kids? Good points. Related questions are answered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28346353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28346353 > ...few things worse than taking people who can't support themselves in their home country and shipping them off to SE Asia... Also, we don't evict people and "ship them off". It's about giving them an oppournity with incentives to make a decision in their life, a new chapter that they can choose to embark on if they see it as a better alternative to being homeless in CA.

bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago

Have you ever been approached by someone in a city saying they need money to get back to their town? Moving even temporarily is a great barrier to entry for a lot.

bequanna 5y ago
Are you talking about the panhandling gas can scam? They aren’t actually moving, out of gas, or whatever.

mbrodersen 5y ago

Wow. So you think that moving people who can’t cope in their own country to a foreign country with a different language/culture will improve things? And you think that other countries would be interested in importing homeless Americans with mental/health issues? Really? Have you ever lived, worked and paid taxes in any foreign country? Then you would know how hard it is to even get a work permit.

archibaldJ 5y ago
> ... moving people who can’t cope in their own country to a foreign country... Homelessness is a specturm. Some people may just need a lift-up, (or an experience that changes the way life is viewed so they can find meaning in it again [1]) to be back to managing a functioning life again. What you want is to give them an opportunity to be in a less stressful enviroment with proper shelters and foods. Addiction of any form (to cig, to opium, or to herions, etc, as well the more socially acceptable forms such as to sex, work, consumerism) is a coping mechanism for stress. It's counter-productive to be in an urban setting with the worst living conditions (ie homeless) which maximizes stress in so many aspect of your daily life, and then trying to 'cure' addiction and turn people into a functioning unit in society again so they can work enough hours to make enough income to pay rent. Perhaps it's more productive to view every homeless person as someone who was burnt-out and broke, and happened to run out of options in their attenuated safety net like getting a loan from their parents to pay rent. And from that on existing health/mental conditions/dependencies they had would often exacerbate, and it got harder and harder to break the vicious cycle. > ... interested in importing homeless Americans with mental/health issues... Mental/health issues are a spectrum too. And this is not about "importing homeless Americans". This should be more like a rehab/retreat none-profit program for people who are stressed out in urban American life to experience life in a more stree-free enviroment closer to nature to connect back with the plants and terrains (away from all loud, harsh and unhealth stimuli and mind-numbing concretes, smells and unfriendiness of an overpopulated city). It'll cost less than the War On Drugs, and if enough smart people are involved, we can definitely structure it in a way where on a long run it'll economically and culturally beneift all parties. > ...worked and paid taxes in any foreign country? Then you would know how hard it is... The purpose is to introduce a change of enviroment to a less-stressful one for them. Something like a training visa or work holiday pass (or even an education one [2]) would do. It would be easy esp when the orgs backing you have international recog. As an NGO, there are many ways this can be executed after fundings are secured. We definitely need to collaborate with local institutes in ways that make sense to them. It can also be something that has an element of spirituality to it (like a church or temple retreat that also helps with rehab), or a commune on self-sustainability (where they'll still have to do work everyday). I see this as the most pragmatic way to lower the cost of living while giving people a dignified living experience that would be much better (and meaningful) than living on the street in CA as a homeless person. [1]: this is why a change of environment can be extremely impactful to mental health. And this is also why psilocybins, etc, taken in the right settings, are useful for mental wellness. ) [2]: Can typically last 6 months to a year. And if we have 4 countries involved, that will be 2~4 years. After that there are many ways this can branch off. We can start off with 5000 quota a year to gauge interest (we'll make it easy for people to apply), and gradually scale up to 50,000 in 5~10 years, (while keeping track of how effective this is comparing to the alternatives).