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Why assume that the ultra wealthy should care about the lesser citizens? What about all the rampant looting in NYC? I don't think they cared then. Maybe many o

Why assume that the ultra wealthy should care about the lesser citizens? What about all the rampant looting in NYC? I don't think they cared then. Maybe many of them just aren't pro American. In almost every other country the media/politics carefully try to project some national pride and sense of unity; it's actually the opposite here in the US isn't it?

throwawaylinux 5y ago
Actually the US is not exceptional in that regard. Media and politicians sometimes use patriotic and popular sentiment (usually empty gestures like sport) to boost their popularity, but around the world in most western countries the tone is increasingly that they should be ashamed of themselves, of their original (secular) sin, and by no means should they take any pride or celebration in their society or its achievements.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  I guess the problem is, if you're interested in history, you often do find there's lots to be proud of in a nation's past, but it's usually the precise opposite of the people you can find statues of. So when you're proud of your nations past, what past? I think there's a lot of admirable stuff in british history, for example, but the streets and statues generally memorialize a bunch of really shitty people.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    I guess that's not the problem. If you're interested in history there is lots of good and amazing achievements. If you do or are supposed to feel some guilt or sorrow or shame for the bad, then you could feel some pride or happiness or thankfulness for the good.
- PoignardAzur 5y ago
  That's a disputed take. Here in France we only just now had a president recognizing our role in the Rwanda genocide, which happened 20 years ago. Overall I'm seeing a lot more people calling for being proud of our nation and moving past inconvenient historical details than self-flagellation. Macron is an exception in how much he stands for the "duty to memory" thing. Most people are fine believing their country can do nothing wrong.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    That's not what I was talking about. Of course governments are not going to easily admit their own crimes and incompetence and failures -- the same as in the US they don't admit their failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc for example. But they absolutely do love to push the moral and economic burden for such things on to the common person. And of course people are proud of their country and history and societies because that's normal healthy part of the human condition. This behavior and thought is increasingly shamed and bullied though.

throwawaylinux 5y ago

Actually the US is not exceptional in that regard. Media and politicians sometimes use patriotic and popular sentiment (usually empty gestures like sport) to boost their popularity, but around the world in most western countries the tone is increasingly that they should be ashamed of themselves, of their original (secular) sin, and by no means should they take any pride or celebration in their society or its achievements.

pasabagi 5y ago
I guess the problem is, if you're interested in history, you often do find there's lots to be proud of in a nation's past, but it's usually the precise opposite of the people you can find statues of. So when you're proud of your nations past, what past? I think there's a lot of admirable stuff in british history, for example, but the streets and statues generally memorialize a bunch of really shitty people.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  I guess that's not the problem. If you're interested in history there is lots of good and amazing achievements. If you do or are supposed to feel some guilt or sorrow or shame for the bad, then you could feel some pride or happiness or thankfulness for the good.
PoignardAzur 5y ago
That's a disputed take. Here in France we only just now had a president recognizing our role in the Rwanda genocide, which happened 20 years ago. Overall I'm seeing a lot more people calling for being proud of our nation and moving past inconvenient historical details than self-flagellation. Macron is an exception in how much he stands for the "duty to memory" thing. Most people are fine believing their country can do nothing wrong.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  That's not what I was talking about. Of course governments are not going to easily admit their own crimes and incompetence and failures -- the same as in the US they don't admit their failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc for example. But they absolutely do love to push the moral and economic burden for such things on to the common person. And of course people are proud of their country and history and societies because that's normal healthy part of the human condition. This behavior and thought is increasingly shamed and bullied though.