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> When asking an innocent question to Mason, the Project Manager of the Bot & API team, about whether my bot could connect to the gateway without being verified

> When asking an innocent question to Mason, the Project Manager of the Bot & API team, about whether my bot could connect to the gateway without being verified, he responded rudely and called me a "martyr" with an unnecessarily threatening tone: Just wanted to say that I had a completely different read of Mason's response - without any other context, it seemed like he was joking around. "We won't ban you, y'know, unless you're into that kind of thing" style. Am I totally off base?

plentyofjelly 5y ago
'Happy to oblige however I can in the cause for a martyr' - just read this sentence in your head and tell me it doesn't sound like it's dripping with sarcasm
- gzer0 5y ago
  No, it sounds quite serious to me actually. I don't joke around like that even with my friends.
  - plentyofjelly 5y ago
    we're not disagreeing here - I'm saying he's being sarcastic and rude. the tone of that message is patronising and it's just an unnecessary jab.
  - JoeQuery 5y ago
    Assuming you're not a jerk and you don't say jerk things, you wouldn't have said this jerk thing being quoted. So saying you wouldn't have said it doesn't change the meaning of what was said.
npinsker 5y ago
I wouldn't have personally said it -- saying he's looking to martyr himself could be read as insulting his judgment, as perhaps it was -- but I read it as a joke too.
DetroitThrow 5y ago
I didn't read it that way, I think a common interpretation would be that he implied the maintainer was probably a martyr or was likely looking to become one, which even if it was partially joking would be taken as threatening to me. I think a lighter interpretation like "We won't ban you unless you want us to" has a different context that usually doesn't follow a question about your service in particular banned, nor does it imply someone might have a specific "quest" to be banned - especially as a random person who also has had grievances with low communication to the point of making a competing API discord.
lilyball 5y ago
That sort of “joke” is something that only works if you do it with friends that know you well. In this context, it feels very rude.
stefan_ 5y ago
Not at all, he just sounds incredibly rude and full of it. Is this Discord policy? Because enterprise doesn't care for attitude.
ronsor 5y ago
That sort of response isn't very professional, and I'm perfectly aware of Discord's "playful" culture, but it was out of place when someone was trying to discuss something seriously.
Nexxxeh 5y ago
I think you're being extremely generous by ascribing any ambiguity to it. Especially as there is context. That's not how I read it, I think almost everyone would read it as Rapptz did. Tone is difficult to gauge over the Internet. Maybe Mason just messed up how it would be interpreted. I suspect we've all done that. I know I have. But the term "martyr" is a really loaded one. This didn't feel like a playful tone misjudged to me. Both of the Discord employees in that were screenshotted come out of this looking really bad. Unprofessional and hostile. The question is just whether they were actually also hostile, or just unprofessional.
xboxnolifes 5y ago
I'm with you on this one. Not sure how every reply to you can only see this as threatening. Maybe I'm in a bubble, but I don't think I could read or use the term "martyr" (especially in such casual context) in the 21st century without it being seen jokingly.
- da39a3ee 5y ago
  Exactly, it shouldn’t even need saying! But, wonderful place though HN is, it is not known for being full of people who understand humor; the majority are going to be all straight-faced and disagree.
kibibyte 5y ago
It really could be a joke, but the power dynamic makes it unacceptable. It's like if your boss jokes about firing you.
jeltz 5y ago
Yeah, the martry comment was pretty rude but I do not read it as a threat. More like "stop trying to make yourself such a big martyr".
VeryLargeBoots 5y ago
Danny and Mason had known eachother for several years when this conversation happened. While not great from a PR standpoint, I don't think this kind of banter with someone you've known for so long is out of line.

plentyofjelly 5y ago

'Happy to oblige however I can in the cause for a martyr' - just read this sentence in your head and tell me it doesn't sound like it's dripping with sarcasm

gzer0 5y ago
No, it sounds quite serious to me actually. I don't joke around like that even with my friends.
- plentyofjelly 5y ago
  we're not disagreeing here - I'm saying he's being sarcastic and rude. the tone of that message is patronising and it's just an unnecessary jab.
- JoeQuery 5y ago
  Assuming you're not a jerk and you don't say jerk things, you wouldn't have said this jerk thing being quoted. So saying you wouldn't have said it doesn't change the meaning of what was said.

npinsker 5y ago

I wouldn't have personally said it -- saying he's looking to martyr himself could be read as insulting his judgment, as perhaps it was -- but I read it as a joke too.

DetroitThrow 5y ago

I didn't read it that way, I think a common interpretation would be that he implied the maintainer was probably a martyr or was likely looking to become one, which even if it was partially joking would be taken as threatening to me. I think a lighter interpretation like "We won't ban you unless you want us to" has a different context that usually doesn't follow a question about your service in particular banned, nor does it imply someone might have a specific "quest" to be banned - especially as a random person who also has had grievances with low communication to the point of making a competing API discord.

lilyball 5y ago

That sort of “joke” is something that only works if you do it with friends that know you well. In this context, it feels very rude.

stefan_ 5y ago

Not at all, he just sounds incredibly rude and full of it. Is this Discord policy? Because enterprise doesn't care for attitude.

ronsor 5y ago

That sort of response isn't very professional, and I'm perfectly aware of Discord's "playful" culture, but it was out of place when someone was trying to discuss something seriously.

Nexxxeh 5y ago

I think you're being extremely generous by ascribing any ambiguity to it. Especially as there is context. That's not how I read it, I think almost everyone would read it as Rapptz did. Tone is difficult to gauge over the Internet. Maybe Mason just messed up how it would be interpreted. I suspect we've all done that. I know I have. But the term "martyr" is a really loaded one. This didn't feel like a playful tone misjudged to me. Both of the Discord employees in that were screenshotted come out of this looking really bad. Unprofessional and hostile. The question is just whether they were actually also hostile, or just unprofessional.

xboxnolifes 5y ago

I'm with you on this one. Not sure how every reply to you can only see this as threatening. Maybe I'm in a bubble, but I don't think I could read or use the term "martyr" (especially in such casual context) in the 21st century without it being seen jokingly.

da39a3ee 5y ago
Exactly, it shouldn’t even need saying! But, wonderful place though HN is, it is not known for being full of people who understand humor; the majority are going to be all straight-faced and disagree.

kibibyte 5y ago

It really could be a joke, but the power dynamic makes it unacceptable. It's like if your boss jokes about firing you.

jeltz 5y ago

Yeah, the martry comment was pretty rude but I do not read it as a threat. More like "stop trying to make yourself such a big martyr".

VeryLargeBoots 5y ago

Danny and Mason had known eachother for several years when this conversation happened. While not great from a PR standpoint, I don't think this kind of banter with someone you've known for so long is out of line.