6 ms·

Per my own experience SF is not a bad place to live. But the homelessness has gotten worse so I had to get out.

flyinglizard 5y ago
So it is a bad place to live.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> Per my own experience SF is not a bad place to live. I have the opposite view. In SF, your risk of the following occurring is non-negligible and in some cases, shockingly quite likely: - Being mugged/robbed - Having your car broken into - Being harangued or even assaulted by someone who is mentally ill and/or under the influence - Witnessing public urination, defecation, drug use and grab and go retail theft - Stepping in human feces I don't see how a place where these things occur on a regular basis, and where, in most cases, such crimes are not investigated and prosecuted, could ever be considered "not a bad place to live".
- diffset 5y ago
  The homeless and those issues pretty much only exist in the tourist areas near downtown, the tenderloin, soma, etc. The tourists come and see all of that and get the idea SF is some horrible dystopia, but unless you live in those areas, it's not a problem. I lived in Noe Valley for 3 years and never ran into a single problem from your list. SF is so much more than downtown.
  - Aspos 5y ago
    Can confirm. In general, unless you actually step into them, human feces are not a problem. Just watch your step and be alert. How difficult can it be?
    - rcurry 5y ago
      You should submit this to the next license plate slogan contest. “San Francisco - Don’t like needles, just watch your step!”
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - thatswrong0 5y ago
      Your bar is so low it's on the ground - watch your step.
      - Aspos 5y ago
        Right! Don't like feces, don't step into them. Don't like Tenderloin, just don't go there. Easy, right? Right?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - refurb 5y ago
      This is like some bizarre regression in civilization. 2000 years ago humans realized people shitting in random places was bad and needed to be solved. And it was. And now we have people saying human shit on the sidewalks is “not a problem”.
  - muh_gradle 5y ago
    The dysfunction is definitely not isolated to just certain neighborhoods in SF. It goes beyond the tenderloin now.
  - themanmaran 5y ago
    Noe Valley resident as well. But you have to realize that Noe is very segregated from the rest of the city. Mainly it's the hills. Hard to be homeless and hike up the castro hill. Same with why Bernal is so clean. But anywhere in Mission or along Market gets pretty sketch.
  - pjlegato 5y ago
    The "bad / dangerous" part of the city is now significantly larger than it was even three years ago, when you moved here. It's been expanding rapidly the past few years.
    - dilyevsky 5y ago
      I saw a homeless dude yelling some crap in the middle of international terminal of SFO just today.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    There are homeless encampments and tents on streets in the Marina district now, so these issues aren't isolated to "tourist areas". Yes, some parts of the city definitely have it worse than others, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss these issues on the basis that there are small residential enclaves that are less affected. If you want to enjoy SF's restaurant scene, nightlife, hiking, etc., you will inevitably have to go to areas where this crime is rampant. And this crime should not be happening in an American city, let alone one that is so rich.
  - scottm01 5y ago
    As long as we're giving personal anecdotes, I lived in the mission (the "good side" near dolores park) for 8 years and experienced most of that list. I was physically assaulted last fall while walking back from Noe Valley at 2pm in the afternoon. Nobody answered the police non emergency number while I followed the assailant (who threw a right hook that I only partially dodged as he walked past me on the street). Sure, you get better at dodging feces and ignoring the drug use, littering, and theft, but let's not pretend it's confined to "downtown, the tenderloin, soma, etc". I've lived and worked in Manhattan and DC, and spent time in many international cities. I've walked all over all of them, and never felt less safe than I regularly did walking to work in soma. SF has a unique political situation, a climate that makes homelessness "bearable" and a huge number of absentee landlords (thanks, Prop 13). We were sad to move out in January. SF is a gorgeous city filled with kind, interesting people. "Horrible dystopia" is certainly an exaggeration, but the situation is bad and has gotten much worse in the past few years.
  - r3trohack3r 5y ago
    I lived in San Jose for two years. Commuted to Los Gatos. 880 had cardboard cities up and down it; my morning walk for coffee had 3-4 “regulars” living along it with frequent homeless transients. Many neighborhoods full of Multi-million dollar properties that looked, and felt, like unmaintained slums. The societal decay of SF extends through the entire Bay Area; certainly extends outside of its “tourist” centers.
  - anonymoushn 5y ago
    I hope your big tech company workplace is also located in Noe Valley
- lhorie 5y ago
  I've lived in Toronto, SF and Sao Paulo. In 18 years living in Sao Paulo, I've witnessed one gun-related incident and was victim of robbery once (I lived near Heliopolis, one of the largest slums in the city). In 18 years living in Toronto, I was involved in zero. In my first 2 years in SF, I was harassed twice and witnessed retail theft 2 times. SF is "not bad" in the sense that you won't get shot in the face. It is however quite bad in the sense that the amount of petty crime is so off the charts that you can't even compile accurate statistics because security personnel at retail stores don't even bother reporting it anymore. A few months ago, I witnessed another theft in inner Richmond (one of the nicer neighbourhoods), the security guy did a half-ass attempt at running after the guy but gave up and came towards the customer support desk I was at. I asked if that was common, and the security guy literally just shrugs.
  - emacsen 5y ago
    I've visited SF four or five times and the last time, I was waiting downtown (sorry I don't remember exactly where, but a high wealth, high traffic area) and a man who was clearly down on his luck came up to me and yelled at me. This was about five years ago. I've lived in NYC for ~9 years and that's never happened to me. It was genuinely shocking and very worrying.
- kmtrowbr 5y ago
  I've lived in San Francisco for 16 years. Yes, I have experienced the homeless problem. I had my car broken into once when I left my backpack inside. I have never been mugged or robbed or had any physical violence occur, or be threatened. We have many lovely friends who live here. San Francisco is under a lot of pressure: population, finance, environmental. It is not a dystopia. It is a community where people build their lives and deserves love and support. I have spent significant amounts of time in New York, Paris and other world cities. I do not find San Francisco to be all that different from New York or Paris.
  - thatswrong0 5y ago
    Really? Having lived in both for a good period of time, I found New York City to be far more livable and safer. The homeless, petty crime, and general disfunction issues here in SF are laughable for what some might consider to be a "world class city".
  - lhorie 5y ago
    > I have never been mugged or robbed or had any physical violence occur, or be threatened. You're lucky (and not that I want to intentionally bring up this card, but I bet you're a burly caucasian male). I saw a guy jump over the Bart ticket gate on literally my first night in SF. I've witnessed multiple retail theft incidents. I've been spat on, literally out of nowhere. A coworker had his garage broken into and a bike stolen. Another mentioned a friend whose backpack was snatched. (All asians) > It is a community where people build their lives and deserves love and support. This comes across as an empty platitude. One can say that about literally anywhere, even a place like Kabul. For me, SF is markedly different from other places I've lived, and if we were talking in terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it doesn't score very well.
    - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
      > You're lucky (and not that I want to intentionally bring up this card, but I bet you're a burly caucasian male). Stop this. I'm a non-burly non-caucasian male and this (being mugged, robbed, or undergoing physical violence) has never happened to me even once. Maybe you're unlucky? Drawing from your personal anecdotes gets tiring. > I've witnessed multiple retail theft incidents. I've been spat on, literally out of nowhere. I've seen this in SF. I've also seen it in LA, Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake City, and Chicago. I've seen it in NYC also, but not in Manhattan. The difference is that in most other big cities in the US, everyone drives around everywhere, so you're insulated from the folks on the street, or you clearly know which neighborhoods to avoid. > A coworker had his garage broken into and a bike stolen. Another mentioned a friend whose backpack was snatched. (All asians) A garage is race-blind, come on. I've lived in a house full of East Asians in the Sunset and this never happened to me. I lived in SOMA with caucasians and this happened to me (well us, nothing of mine was stolen). I think what you're seeing is that SF is physically a lot less class-segregated than other US cities and that folks drive around here a lot less than they do in other cities. In LA, the crazies mostly hang around Skid Row and the Arts District and if you spend most of your life outside these places (or in a car, as Angelenos are won't to do) you'll never encounter them. In Chicago if you stick to the Loop and downtown. you'll only see gleaming apartments. In Houston, Austin, and much of Salt Lake City (and honestly almost everyone in LA), most everyone just zooms around in a car and only interacts with the homeless or panhandlers as they drive around. As such most affluent folks know to avoid low-income or run-down neighborhoods and so never really interact with the homeless. In SF you can walk down Valencia between 17th and 22nd and it'll look shiny and fancy, like something out of a promotional poster about "Modern Living". Then you walk a block over to Guerrero and you'll see someone with scabs all over lying on the street naked. You walk down 7th or 8th and see fancy new cafes, but then you walk down 6th and see folks shooting up in broad daylight. Some of this is SF's more tolerant atmosphere for the mentally-ill homeless; in other cities they just get harassed until they accumulate in a part of town that doesn't have the residents, police funding, or political capital to push them out. I'm not saying SF is a bed of roses and I do think the police here need to take a much harder line on property crime, but I think a lot of the negative experiences here are motivated by SF's lack of physical segregation and its walking-first culture. America has historically just relegated the poor and homeless to the streets and used cars to literally and figuratively zoom away from them. Now that cities are coming back into vogue, the US will have to confront the fact that it never fixed its poverty problem but just shoved it out of sight.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

So it is a bad place to live.

> Per my own experience SF is not a bad place to live. I have the opposite view. In SF, your risk of the following occurring is non-negligible and in some cases, shockingly quite likely: - Being mugged/robbed - Having your car broken into - Being harangued or even assaulted by someone who is mentally ill and/or under the influence - Witnessing public urination, defecation, drug use and grab and go retail theft - Stepping in human feces I don't see how a place where these things occur on a regular basis, and where, in most cases, such crimes are not investigated and prosecuted, could ever be considered "not a bad place to live".

diffset 5y ago
The homeless and those issues pretty much only exist in the tourist areas near downtown, the tenderloin, soma, etc. The tourists come and see all of that and get the idea SF is some horrible dystopia, but unless you live in those areas, it's not a problem. I lived in Noe Valley for 3 years and never ran into a single problem from your list. SF is so much more than downtown.
- Aspos 5y ago
  Can confirm. In general, unless you actually step into them, human feces are not a problem. Just watch your step and be alert. How difficult can it be?
  - rcurry 5y ago
    You should submit this to the next license plate slogan contest. “San Francisco - Don’t like needles, just watch your step!”
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - thatswrong0 5y ago
    Your bar is so low it's on the ground - watch your step.
    - Aspos 5y ago
      Right! Don't like feces, don't step into them. Don't like Tenderloin, just don't go there. Easy, right? Right?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - refurb 5y ago
    This is like some bizarre regression in civilization. 2000 years ago humans realized people shitting in random places was bad and needed to be solved. And it was. And now we have people saying human shit on the sidewalks is “not a problem”.
- muh_gradle 5y ago
  The dysfunction is definitely not isolated to just certain neighborhoods in SF. It goes beyond the tenderloin now.
- themanmaran 5y ago
  Noe Valley resident as well. But you have to realize that Noe is very segregated from the rest of the city. Mainly it's the hills. Hard to be homeless and hike up the castro hill. Same with why Bernal is so clean. But anywhere in Mission or along Market gets pretty sketch.
- pjlegato 5y ago
  The "bad / dangerous" part of the city is now significantly larger than it was even three years ago, when you moved here. It's been expanding rapidly the past few years.
  - dilyevsky 5y ago
    I saw a homeless dude yelling some crap in the middle of international terminal of SFO just today.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  There are homeless encampments and tents on streets in the Marina district now, so these issues aren't isolated to "tourist areas". Yes, some parts of the city definitely have it worse than others, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss these issues on the basis that there are small residential enclaves that are less affected. If you want to enjoy SF's restaurant scene, nightlife, hiking, etc., you will inevitably have to go to areas where this crime is rampant. And this crime should not be happening in an American city, let alone one that is so rich.
- scottm01 5y ago
  As long as we're giving personal anecdotes, I lived in the mission (the "good side" near dolores park) for 8 years and experienced most of that list. I was physically assaulted last fall while walking back from Noe Valley at 2pm in the afternoon. Nobody answered the police non emergency number while I followed the assailant (who threw a right hook that I only partially dodged as he walked past me on the street). Sure, you get better at dodging feces and ignoring the drug use, littering, and theft, but let's not pretend it's confined to "downtown, the tenderloin, soma, etc". I've lived and worked in Manhattan and DC, and spent time in many international cities. I've walked all over all of them, and never felt less safe than I regularly did walking to work in soma. SF has a unique political situation, a climate that makes homelessness "bearable" and a huge number of absentee landlords (thanks, Prop 13). We were sad to move out in January. SF is a gorgeous city filled with kind, interesting people. "Horrible dystopia" is certainly an exaggeration, but the situation is bad and has gotten much worse in the past few years.
- r3trohack3r 5y ago
  I lived in San Jose for two years. Commuted to Los Gatos. 880 had cardboard cities up and down it; my morning walk for coffee had 3-4 “regulars” living along it with frequent homeless transients. Many neighborhoods full of Multi-million dollar properties that looked, and felt, like unmaintained slums. The societal decay of SF extends through the entire Bay Area; certainly extends outside of its “tourist” centers.
- anonymoushn 5y ago
  I hope your big tech company workplace is also located in Noe Valley
lhorie 5y ago
I've lived in Toronto, SF and Sao Paulo. In 18 years living in Sao Paulo, I've witnessed one gun-related incident and was victim of robbery once (I lived near Heliopolis, one of the largest slums in the city). In 18 years living in Toronto, I was involved in zero. In my first 2 years in SF, I was harassed twice and witnessed retail theft 2 times. SF is "not bad" in the sense that you won't get shot in the face. It is however quite bad in the sense that the amount of petty crime is so off the charts that you can't even compile accurate statistics because security personnel at retail stores don't even bother reporting it anymore. A few months ago, I witnessed another theft in inner Richmond (one of the nicer neighbourhoods), the security guy did a half-ass attempt at running after the guy but gave up and came towards the customer support desk I was at. I asked if that was common, and the security guy literally just shrugs.
- emacsen 5y ago
  I've visited SF four or five times and the last time, I was waiting downtown (sorry I don't remember exactly where, but a high wealth, high traffic area) and a man who was clearly down on his luck came up to me and yelled at me. This was about five years ago. I've lived in NYC for ~9 years and that's never happened to me. It was genuinely shocking and very worrying.
kmtrowbr 5y ago
I've lived in San Francisco for 16 years. Yes, I have experienced the homeless problem. I had my car broken into once when I left my backpack inside. I have never been mugged or robbed or had any physical violence occur, or be threatened. We have many lovely friends who live here. San Francisco is under a lot of pressure: population, finance, environmental. It is not a dystopia. It is a community where people build their lives and deserves love and support. I have spent significant amounts of time in New York, Paris and other world cities. I do not find San Francisco to be all that different from New York or Paris.
- thatswrong0 5y ago
  Really? Having lived in both for a good period of time, I found New York City to be far more livable and safer. The homeless, petty crime, and general disfunction issues here in SF are laughable for what some might consider to be a "world class city".
- lhorie 5y ago
  > I have never been mugged or robbed or had any physical violence occur, or be threatened. You're lucky (and not that I want to intentionally bring up this card, but I bet you're a burly caucasian male). I saw a guy jump over the Bart ticket gate on literally my first night in SF. I've witnessed multiple retail theft incidents. I've been spat on, literally out of nowhere. A coworker had his garage broken into and a bike stolen. Another mentioned a friend whose backpack was snatched. (All asians) > It is a community where people build their lives and deserves love and support. This comes across as an empty platitude. One can say that about literally anywhere, even a place like Kabul. For me, SF is markedly different from other places I've lived, and if we were talking in terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it doesn't score very well.
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    > You're lucky (and not that I want to intentionally bring up this card, but I bet you're a burly caucasian male). Stop this. I'm a non-burly non-caucasian male and this (being mugged, robbed, or undergoing physical violence) has never happened to me even once. Maybe you're unlucky? Drawing from your personal anecdotes gets tiring. > I've witnessed multiple retail theft incidents. I've been spat on, literally out of nowhere. I've seen this in SF. I've also seen it in LA, Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake City, and Chicago. I've seen it in NYC also, but not in Manhattan. The difference is that in most other big cities in the US, everyone drives around everywhere, so you're insulated from the folks on the street, or you clearly know which neighborhoods to avoid. > A coworker had his garage broken into and a bike stolen. Another mentioned a friend whose backpack was snatched. (All asians) A garage is race-blind, come on. I've lived in a house full of East Asians in the Sunset and this never happened to me. I lived in SOMA with caucasians and this happened to me (well us, nothing of mine was stolen). I think what you're seeing is that SF is physically a lot less class-segregated than other US cities and that folks drive around here a lot less than they do in other cities. In LA, the crazies mostly hang around Skid Row and the Arts District and if you spend most of your life outside these places (or in a car, as Angelenos are won't to do) you'll never encounter them. In Chicago if you stick to the Loop and downtown. you'll only see gleaming apartments. In Houston, Austin, and much of Salt Lake City (and honestly almost everyone in LA), most everyone just zooms around in a car and only interacts with the homeless or panhandlers as they drive around. As such most affluent folks know to avoid low-income or run-down neighborhoods and so never really interact with the homeless. In SF you can walk down Valencia between 17th and 22nd and it'll look shiny and fancy, like something out of a promotional poster about "Modern Living". Then you walk a block over to Guerrero and you'll see someone with scabs all over lying on the street naked. You walk down 7th or 8th and see fancy new cafes, but then you walk down 6th and see folks shooting up in broad daylight. Some of this is SF's more tolerant atmosphere for the mentally-ill homeless; in other cities they just get harassed until they accumulate in a part of town that doesn't have the residents, police funding, or political capital to push them out. I'm not saying SF is a bed of roses and I do think the police here need to take a much harder line on property crime, but I think a lot of the negative experiences here are motivated by SF's lack of physical segregation and its walking-first culture. America has historically just relegated the poor and homeless to the streets and used cars to literally and figuratively zoom away from them. Now that cities are coming back into vogue, the US will have to confront the fact that it never fixed its poverty problem but just shoved it out of sight.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]