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> The unit sifted through the physical evidence, reviewed closed-circuit-camera footage, and interviewed two unarmed security guards who had heard the commotion

> The unit sifted through the physical evidence, reviewed closed-circuit-camera footage, and interviewed two unarmed security guards who had heard the commotion and locked themselves in the basement safe room during the robbery. I wonder what the job description was for which these security guards were hired.

DemiGuru 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow
corty 5y ago
As it says: unarmed. Your job as an unarmed guard is to complement the alarm system with your eyes and ears, and if something is amiss, press the alarm button and get out of there. Which is what they did. The article makes it sound like security was tight, but the museum was, according to news articles at the time, too stingy. If they had wanted to spend the money, they could have had armed guards, physical barriers other than simple glass cases and reinforced outer walls. But they were even too stingy for an insurance, and the insurer might have told them to up their security before taking the contract. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp2.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/gruenes-gewoelbe-experten-vermuten-veraltete-sicherheitstechnik-in-dresden-kunstdiebe-werden-brutaler/25270636.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp2.handelsblatt.com/politik/d...
- Archelaos 5y ago
  Armed guards would increase the risk that someone is killed. According to German law, a guard would only be entitled to use its weapon in self defense, not in defense of the things to be guarded. Using a weapon is only justified when no other means is sufficient to ward off the threat to one's own or someone else's life. Shooting and killing a thief can result in a murder charge against the shooter. It would also make the job of the guards far more dangerous, when burglars are expecting armed guards and would be tempted to use violence first.
  - corty 5y ago
    Not quite. Weapon use would be possible as "Rechtfertigender Notstand", https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/34.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/34.html . This doesn't just include protection of ones own life, but also of property. However, the force used has to be suitable and proportionate, so shooting someone dead would not be justified. Injuring someone would usually be justified, but will always land in front of a judge to apply 20/20 hindsight. And no one wants to accept that risk.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
formerly_proven 5y ago
Armed guards are extremely rare in Germany. Legally possible, yes, but I doubt a museum could have them.
bserge 5y ago
It's a shit job. You can get hurt for close to minimum wage and get prison time if you hurt someone. Just play it safe and report everything to the police afterwards.
- ionwake 5y ago
  I remember when I was paid minimum wage to be a receptionist in a building. One day a man came in said someone was hurt. I ran outside to help with my friend but no one was there. We walked back in and a gang pulled a flat screen off a wall. We werent sure what to do so we called security and to be honest were so confused we kept telling them to explain what they were doing. ( It was just a flat screen ). I remember the thieves ( middle of the day ) Just saying something like " its not worth it just leave us alone". Long story short. A few weeks later, instead of getting a raise for confronting a gang, or even a good arm shake, thanks, words of support or anything like that I received an email. A one sentence footnote in a long public email, said thanks for "trying" to deal with a scenario. tl;dr; I put my health and possible life at risk for a flatscreen and I wasn't even properly thanked. Infact I think my boss thought I was incompetent in some way. Dont EVER put your health at risk for a company unless it is already factored into your salary. Or you will probably even be punished let alone thanked. Truly be careful and understand what your minimum responsibilities are at the start of a job and understand where your limits are.

DemiGuru 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow

corty 5y ago

As it says: unarmed. Your job as an unarmed guard is to complement the alarm system with your eyes and ears, and if something is amiss, press the alarm button and get out of there. Which is what they did. The article makes it sound like security was tight, but the museum was, according to news articles at the time, too stingy. If they had wanted to spend the money, they could have had armed guards, physical barriers other than simple glass cases and reinforced outer walls. But they were even too stingy for an insurance, and the insurer might have told them to up their security before taking the contract. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp2.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/gruenes-gewoelbe-experten-vermuten-veraltete-sicherheitstechnik-in-dresden-kunstdiebe-werden-brutaler/25270636.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp2.handelsblatt.com/politik/d...

Archelaos 5y ago
Armed guards would increase the risk that someone is killed. According to German law, a guard would only be entitled to use its weapon in self defense, not in defense of the things to be guarded. Using a weapon is only justified when no other means is sufficient to ward off the threat to one's own or someone else's life. Shooting and killing a thief can result in a murder charge against the shooter. It would also make the job of the guards far more dangerous, when burglars are expecting armed guards and would be tempted to use violence first.
- corty 5y ago
  Not quite. Weapon use would be possible as "Rechtfertigender Notstand", https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/34.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/34.html . This doesn't just include protection of ones own life, but also of property. However, the force used has to be suitable and proportionate, so shooting someone dead would not be justified. Injuring someone would usually be justified, but will always land in front of a judge to apply 20/20 hindsight. And no one wants to accept that risk.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

formerly_proven 5y ago

Armed guards are extremely rare in Germany. Legally possible, yes, but I doubt a museum could have them.

bserge 5y ago

It's a shit job. You can get hurt for close to minimum wage and get prison time if you hurt someone. Just play it safe and report everything to the police afterwards.

ionwake 5y ago
I remember when I was paid minimum wage to be a receptionist in a building. One day a man came in said someone was hurt. I ran outside to help with my friend but no one was there. We walked back in and a gang pulled a flat screen off a wall. We werent sure what to do so we called security and to be honest were so confused we kept telling them to explain what they were doing. ( It was just a flat screen ). I remember the thieves ( middle of the day ) Just saying something like " its not worth it just leave us alone". Long story short. A few weeks later, instead of getting a raise for confronting a gang, or even a good arm shake, thanks, words of support or anything like that I received an email. A one sentence footnote in a long public email, said thanks for "trying" to deal with a scenario. tl;dr; I put my health and possible life at risk for a flatscreen and I wasn't even properly thanked. Infact I think my boss thought I was incompetent in some way. Dont EVER put your health at risk for a company unless it is already factored into your salary. Or you will probably even be punished let alone thanked. Truly be careful and understand what your minimum responsibilities are at the start of a job and understand where your limits are.