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Knowing calories matter doesn't solve a thing. You pointing it out like it's a revelation indicates you don't understand the difficulty of what you expect. Le

by lkey 5y ago

Knowing calories matter doesn't solve a thing. You pointing it out like it's a revelation indicates you don't understand the difficulty of what you expect. Let's say you are now 120 lbs over weight. You know CICO. How long will it take you to get skinny, assuming you ate nothing at all until you hit your goal weight? A pound of fat is 454g. A gram of fat contains 9 kcal. Being 120 lbs over weight means you have to burn 9x454x120. Let's say your basal metabolic rate is 2000 kcal/day 9x454x120/2000 => 245 days of not eating a single thing. Is this a reasonable thing to expect society to adopt en masse? Do you think you could starve for that long? Could you instead only eat 700 calories a day for 3-4 years? It's a privilege of both time and wealth in the US to be able to tightly control your diet and eat healthy, most American's can't afford the luxury. A more reasonable position is to just accept that some people are going to remain fat and focus on positive health outcomes for those people. 'Educating' them about simple arithmetic that doesn't change the fact that losing 100+lbs of weight is a multi-year commitment you cannot break if you wish a modicum of success. I say this as a person who did lose 80lbs when I reached adulthood and successfully kept it off. Edit re your edit: "Downvotes mean I'm onto something" is not a wise stance to take almost ever. I didn't downvote. but I'd wager the reason folks are downvoting you isn't because they hate trivially obvious facts, it's more to do with your analysis being shallow compared to the scale and complexity of the actual problem.

yupper32 5y ago
Not only is this post wildly incorrect, you also seem to have just given up with the populous? I lose around 2 lbs per week at 1500 calories/day. This is pretty normal. 120lbs would be 60 weeks of that. Little over a year. You are completely off with 700 calories for 3-4 years. It's irresponsible to spout that nonsense. > A more reasonable position is to just accept that some people are going to remain fat and focus on positive health outcomes for those people. Unbelievable. You've given up. Edit: > but I'd wager the reason folks are downvoting you isn't because they hate trivially obvious facts, it's more to do with your analysis being shallow compared to the scale and complexity of the actual problem. I'd believe you if a ton of responses weren't people claiming that insulin levels or how fat is stored is actually what matters.
- lkey 5y ago
  "Given up" is an interesting way of putting it. Given up on what or whom? Do fat people want me to save and educate them? You're acting like I should be doing something personally about other people being fat. I think it should be treated just like any other chronic condition, you try to be as healthy as possible within the paradigm. If you want to lose weight, great, but people starting to lose weight need to understand that the habits they are using will likely have to be permanent fixtures for the rest of their life. Returning to a "normal" lifestyle is how the weight was gained in the first place after all. Irresponsible to whom? You are the one advocating for this exact kind of analysis, not me, I merely obliged you. Your stated solutions below are 'ban food' and 'education'. If you know anything about how fat people are treated at doctor's offices, 'stop being fat, eat less' is probably the first and last thing they hear at any checkup. It's not working. ' Ban food' is intriguing, but I don't believe it's practical for, I hope, obvious reasons. - I lose around 2 lbs per week at 1500 calories/day. I don't care about your anecdotal data. Show me your CICO analysis. Do you control for water and glycogen loss? What about exercise, what's your basal metabolic rate? etc...
  - yupper32 5y ago
    > Irresponsible to whom? You are the one advocating for this exact kind of analysis, not me, I merely obliged you. It's irresponsible to say that you need to be on a 700 calorie diet for 3-4 years to lose 120 pounds. That's so far from reality that it's irresponsible. > Do you control for water and glycogen loss? I lose more in the first week or so to what I assume is water retention. After that it settles into 2lbs/week. > What about exercise, what's your basal metabolic rate? etc... I wear a fitbit and allow myself more calories if I run (based on what it tells me). None of this needs to be perfect. If you're off by 100-200 calories a day, you'll still lose weight. None of that matters, though. I have my number: 1500 calories. If I'm not losing enough, I'll lower it 100 at a time. Or if I'm losing too much, I'll raise it 100 at a time. That adjusts for BMR and mistakes in my calorie counting. Finding my exact BMR is wasted effort.
    - lkey 5y ago
      "That's so far from reality that it's irresponsible." I think your "larger male that can still safely run every week" perspective is skewing your understanding of this problem. It is perfectly reasonable to expect weight loss of that magnitude to take that long for people that are older, sicker, or just not male. Moreover, you starting BMR often is significantly higher than it will be when you finish a crash diet, so if you tabulated 2000 a day at the start, that can be as low 1400 by the end coming out of starvation. I'm happy you've found a method of weight loss that works for you. The way I lost weight was more extreme, but similar. However, you shouldn't universalize your personal experience as hidden wisdom. The are people who are born fat and will die fat. If they are otherwise healthy and happy for the duration, I see no reason for society to 'educate' or intervene on their lives. And make no mistake, it is possible to be fat and healthy. Your heart, cholesterol, and diabetic markers can all be normal if you are eating healthy and exercising at (within reason) any weight.
josephcsible 5y ago
People who are 120 pounds overweight didn't gain it all overnight. It's completely unreasonable to expect to lose it all overnight either, and that fact has nothing to do with CICO.
kiba 5y ago
Your basal metabolism can flucutate based on physical activity, and probably nutrition too. Also, fasting had shown to me that we can have an empty stomach and yet not be hungry. Yet, the state of not being feed seems to be a foreign idea to most people. I lost weight by mostly intermittent fasting, without needing to count calories. Sometime, I even eat way too much food in one sitting. Over the long term, I did lose weight.

by lkey 5y ago

yupper32 5y ago

Not only is this post wildly incorrect, you also seem to have just given up with the populous? I lose around 2 lbs per week at 1500 calories/day. This is pretty normal. 120lbs would be 60 weeks of that. Little over a year. You are completely off with 700 calories for 3-4 years. It's irresponsible to spout that nonsense. > A more reasonable position is to just accept that some people are going to remain fat and focus on positive health outcomes for those people. Unbelievable. You've given up. Edit: > but I'd wager the reason folks are downvoting you isn't because they hate trivially obvious facts, it's more to do with your analysis being shallow compared to the scale and complexity of the actual problem. I'd believe you if a ton of responses weren't people claiming that insulin levels or how fat is stored is actually what matters.

lkey 5y ago
"Given up" is an interesting way of putting it. Given up on what or whom? Do fat people want me to save and educate them? You're acting like I should be doing something personally about other people being fat. I think it should be treated just like any other chronic condition, you try to be as healthy as possible within the paradigm. If you want to lose weight, great, but people starting to lose weight need to understand that the habits they are using will likely have to be permanent fixtures for the rest of their life. Returning to a "normal" lifestyle is how the weight was gained in the first place after all. Irresponsible to whom? You are the one advocating for this exact kind of analysis, not me, I merely obliged you. Your stated solutions below are 'ban food' and 'education'. If you know anything about how fat people are treated at doctor's offices, 'stop being fat, eat less' is probably the first and last thing they hear at any checkup. It's not working. ' Ban food' is intriguing, but I don't believe it's practical for, I hope, obvious reasons. - I lose around 2 lbs per week at 1500 calories/day. I don't care about your anecdotal data. Show me your CICO analysis. Do you control for water and glycogen loss? What about exercise, what's your basal metabolic rate? etc...
- yupper32 5y ago
  > Irresponsible to whom? You are the one advocating for this exact kind of analysis, not me, I merely obliged you. It's irresponsible to say that you need to be on a 700 calorie diet for 3-4 years to lose 120 pounds. That's so far from reality that it's irresponsible. > Do you control for water and glycogen loss? I lose more in the first week or so to what I assume is water retention. After that it settles into 2lbs/week. > What about exercise, what's your basal metabolic rate? etc... I wear a fitbit and allow myself more calories if I run (based on what it tells me). None of this needs to be perfect. If you're off by 100-200 calories a day, you'll still lose weight. None of that matters, though. I have my number: 1500 calories. If I'm not losing enough, I'll lower it 100 at a time. Or if I'm losing too much, I'll raise it 100 at a time. That adjusts for BMR and mistakes in my calorie counting. Finding my exact BMR is wasted effort.
  - lkey 5y ago
    "That's so far from reality that it's irresponsible." I think your "larger male that can still safely run every week" perspective is skewing your understanding of this problem. It is perfectly reasonable to expect weight loss of that magnitude to take that long for people that are older, sicker, or just not male. Moreover, you starting BMR often is significantly higher than it will be when you finish a crash diet, so if you tabulated 2000 a day at the start, that can be as low 1400 by the end coming out of starvation. I'm happy you've found a method of weight loss that works for you. The way I lost weight was more extreme, but similar. However, you shouldn't universalize your personal experience as hidden wisdom. The are people who are born fat and will die fat. If they are otherwise healthy and happy for the duration, I see no reason for society to 'educate' or intervene on their lives. And make no mistake, it is possible to be fat and healthy. Your heart, cholesterol, and diabetic markers can all be normal if you are eating healthy and exercising at (within reason) any weight.

josephcsible 5y ago

People who are 120 pounds overweight didn't gain it all overnight. It's completely unreasonable to expect to lose it all overnight either, and that fact has nothing to do with CICO.

kiba 5y ago

Your basal metabolism can flucutate based on physical activity, and probably nutrition too. Also, fasting had shown to me that we can have an empty stomach and yet not be hungry. Yet, the state of not being feed seems to be a foreign idea to most people. I lost weight by mostly intermittent fasting, without needing to count calories. Sometime, I even eat way too much food in one sitting. Over the long term, I did lose weight.