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There have been many suggestions in this thread about the root cause of obesity. While I'm sure these things do contribute to the issue, they are not the main c

There have been many suggestions in this thread about the root cause of obesity. While I'm sure these things do contribute to the issue, they are not the main cause - the main cause is that being fat is socially acceptable. I don't believe that if the average person placed great importance on being healthy - as great as making more money, getting a better job etc., they would be unable to afford the extra cost of healthy food, fit a couple of hours of exercise per week into their routines, or do whatever it takes to maintain a healthy physique.

deleted 5y ago
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gibagger 5y ago
I don't think healthy food has to be expensive. It can be if one decides to go the "superfood" route, also if one decides to eat beef / fish with every other meal. The fact is that multigrain bread, oats, beans, lentils and peanuts are all cheap, filling good sources of fiber and protein. Large animal protein portions are rarely truly needed. Combine that with some vegetables, a bit of oil, some spices, a modest portion of pork/chicken protein, and you end up with an inexpensive healthy meal. I understand that eating well has other costs (namely, the time and effort it takes to make it and clean up afterwards). For people who value their health, this cost is usually acceptable.
- feudalism 5y ago
  There's even a helpful subreddit r/EatCheapAndHealthy
kiba 5y ago
Seems to be a form of victim blaming. If people tried to follow normal dieting advice, and they failed, do we keep telling them to try harder? I am speaking as someone who had lost a lot of weight and achieved near normal BMI and had prioritized health. I found intermittent fasting to be much easier and less willpower taxing than counting calories, which was way too much work. People do want to be healthier and a lot of people really tried hard. Problem is, in other societies, it's effortless.
- gibagger 5y ago
  Your last line really resonates with me. I was born and raised in a country with a very high obesity rate these days. I am currently living in Amsterdam. The Dutch attitude towards walking, cycling, food and sports makes it extremely easy to manage one's weight, if you buy into it. When I visit my home country, no one in my family / friends circle enjoys walking. Most don't enjoy exercise, but they are truly fond of barbecues, beer, soft drinks and other such hyper palatable foods. Had I remained in my home country, I would just be one more data point toward the obesity statistic, just by virtue of putting some effort to fit in.
- torginus 5y ago
  I disagree - I think it's a matter of perspective. Many people see the task of getting in shape as some herculean effort requiring inhuman willpower, subconsciously setting themselves up for failure. Consider this - most people spend 40+ hours at work, 5+ hours in commute, only to go home and spend most of the rest of the waking hours doing house chores or attending to family needs - this is a truly epic investment of human effort, yet almost every adult does it without thinking and nobody thinks it's exceptional, thing is, it's kind of expected of people. Compared to that, the amount of sacrifice needed to get healthy is miniscule - only the lack of boring routine and social expectations make it seem otherwise.
  - kiba 5y ago
    I disagree - I think it's a matter of perspective. Many people see the task of getting in shape as some herculean effort requiring inhuman willpower, subconsciously setting themselves up for failure. It's much easier to do something you have to do. Much harder to do something that isn't required of you.
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- feudalism 5y ago
jka 5y ago
> they are not the main cause Well, perhaps. If multiple different factors (say: car culture, ease of food delivery, prevalence of tasty-if-unhealthy food, peer prestige via excess, and targeted advertising) -- or perhaps more -- combine, they can actually create an overriding sense of social acceptability that you then cite. In that sense, the social acceptability becomes a defensive moat for all of the problematic practices that have created the obesity problem in the first place; and rational people will join in defending the moat rather than questioning what is behind it.
ab111111111 5y ago
Healthy foods (e.g. fresh fruit and vegetables) being more expensive than unhealthy ones (e.g. McDonald's) is one of the structural incentives causing increased obesity in the US. In most countries - including Europe - it's the opposite way around. You're quite right to say that people should take care of their own health, but if you live in a place where cycle lanes will get you everywhere you need to go, there are plentiful public green spaces and healthy food is cheap and available everywhere (as I do in Germany), then staying healthy is a lot easier than if you live in, say, the suburbs of Houston.

deleted 5y ago

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gibagger 5y ago

I don't think healthy food has to be expensive. It can be if one decides to go the "superfood" route, also if one decides to eat beef / fish with every other meal. The fact is that multigrain bread, oats, beans, lentils and peanuts are all cheap, filling good sources of fiber and protein. Large animal protein portions are rarely truly needed. Combine that with some vegetables, a bit of oil, some spices, a modest portion of pork/chicken protein, and you end up with an inexpensive healthy meal. I understand that eating well has other costs (namely, the time and effort it takes to make it and clean up afterwards). For people who value their health, this cost is usually acceptable.

feudalism 5y ago
There's even a helpful subreddit r/EatCheapAndHealthy

kiba 5y ago

Seems to be a form of victim blaming. If people tried to follow normal dieting advice, and they failed, do we keep telling them to try harder? I am speaking as someone who had lost a lot of weight and achieved near normal BMI and had prioritized health. I found intermittent fasting to be much easier and less willpower taxing than counting calories, which was way too much work. People do want to be healthier and a lot of people really tried hard. Problem is, in other societies, it's effortless.

gibagger 5y ago
Your last line really resonates with me. I was born and raised in a country with a very high obesity rate these days. I am currently living in Amsterdam. The Dutch attitude towards walking, cycling, food and sports makes it extremely easy to manage one's weight, if you buy into it. When I visit my home country, no one in my family / friends circle enjoys walking. Most don't enjoy exercise, but they are truly fond of barbecues, beer, soft drinks and other such hyper palatable foods. Had I remained in my home country, I would just be one more data point toward the obesity statistic, just by virtue of putting some effort to fit in.
torginus 5y ago
I disagree - I think it's a matter of perspective. Many people see the task of getting in shape as some herculean effort requiring inhuman willpower, subconsciously setting themselves up for failure. Consider this - most people spend 40+ hours at work, 5+ hours in commute, only to go home and spend most of the rest of the waking hours doing house chores or attending to family needs - this is a truly epic investment of human effort, yet almost every adult does it without thinking and nobody thinks it's exceptional, thing is, it's kind of expected of people. Compared to that, the amount of sacrifice needed to get healthy is miniscule - only the lack of boring routine and social expectations make it seem otherwise.
- kiba 5y ago
  I disagree - I think it's a matter of perspective. Many people see the task of getting in shape as some herculean effort requiring inhuman willpower, subconsciously setting themselves up for failure. It's much easier to do something you have to do. Much harder to do something that isn't required of you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
feudalism 5y ago

jka 5y ago

> they are not the main cause Well, perhaps. If multiple different factors (say: car culture, ease of food delivery, prevalence of tasty-if-unhealthy food, peer prestige via excess, and targeted advertising) -- or perhaps more -- combine, they can actually create an overriding sense of social acceptability that you then cite. In that sense, the social acceptability becomes a defensive moat for all of the problematic practices that have created the obesity problem in the first place; and rational people will join in defending the moat rather than questioning what is behind it.

ab111111111 5y ago

Healthy foods (e.g. fresh fruit and vegetables) being more expensive than unhealthy ones (e.g. McDonald's) is one of the structural incentives causing increased obesity in the US. In most countries - including Europe - it's the opposite way around. You're quite right to say that people should take care of their own health, but if you live in a place where cycle lanes will get you everywhere you need to go, there are plentiful public green spaces and healthy food is cheap and available everywhere (as I do in Germany), then staying healthy is a lot easier than if you live in, say, the suburbs of Houston.