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> The question then is whether you want your first infection to be with or without prior immunity. If you want that first time to be with prior immunity get vac

> The question then is whether you want your first infection to be with or without prior immunity. If you want that first time to be with prior immunity get vaccinated as that is the only known way to get immunity before your first infection. You get vaccinated against an extremely specific variant, that does not guarantee any immunity for other variants unlike immunity from infection. Did you get vaccinated every year for the seasonal flu pre 2020? If not, why do you sustain vaccination when it is clear that you will have to take boosters and variant specific vaccines every year? Why would you suggest anyone that is not in a risk group and is healthy to vaccinate when his body is better prepared to withstand and easily battle any sars-cov-19 variant?

xyzzyz 5y ago
The vaccine does not “guarantee” protection from other variants, but it does have some, more for some variants and apparently less for others (delta). But, the same can be said about prior infection: it does not “guarantee” protection from other variants either. The paper here provides evidence that even though neither of them “guarantee” immunity for other variants or reinfection, prior infection provides more protection from COVID-19 than currently used vaccines.
seoaeu 5y ago
Vaccination guarantees some immunity for all existing variants. Just because it is impossible to say for all hypothetical future variants doesn't mean you need to spread misinformation like that
- abnorxiouster 5y ago
  Why do you misinform ? This discusson has already been done here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28317866 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28317866 The covid vaccine works more like a laser providing immunity to a specific variant. It does not guarantee "some" immunity for the other variants. Instead new vaccines are created to target the other specific variants which is what companies like pfizer already work on by the way.
  - kemayo 5y ago
    The discussion on that post seems to support the grandparent, not you. Also, the article it's talking about says > The new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying “single letter” changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection. I.e. the current vaccines are not laser-focused, but are in fact less focused than a natural infection response, meaning they're better at covering against variants. The most charitable read I can think of for your comments is that you're taking "immunity" to mean only the absolute you-cannot-catch-this-at-all level. Whereas the vaccines (and natural immunity) work far more on a gradient -- your immune system is primed to fight the disease off, and so your outcome at every stage is better than it would otherwise have been.
    - tzs 5y ago
      Note that the article was talking about the spike protein. I believe natural immunity also can target parts of SARS-CoV-19 that are not part of the spike protein. In that sense vaccines are more focused, but the focus is on a part of the virus that is critical for getting into cells. There are limits to how far the spike protein can mutate and still do its job and the vaccine immunity covers a large part of that space.
      - Ancapistani 5y ago
        > Note that the article was talking about the spike protein. I believe natural immunity also can target parts of SARS-CoV-19 that are not part of the spike protein. This is my understanding as well. Vaccine-derived immunity is more broad with respect to potential mutation of the spike protein/"receptor binding domain". Natural immunity is more broad with respect to the entire virus, as antibodies target areas other than the spike protein itself. I believe that antibodies specific to the spike protein more significantly reduce the chance of initial infection, while antibodies specific to other areas of the virus are more effective at reducing the chance of developing symptoms.
        5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tzs 5y ago
> You get vaccinated against an extremely specific variant, that does not guarantee any immunity for other variants unlike immunity from infection. The current vaccines in the US provide excellent protection against serious illness or death from all current variations. It is only protection against infection that has fallen off some with the variations. > Did you get vaccinated every year for the seasonal flu pre 2020? Yes. > Why would you suggest anyone that is not in a risk group and is healthy to vaccinate when his body is better prepared to withstand and easily battle any sars-cov-19 variant? Because P(serious illness or death from their first COVID infection|not vaccinated) is much greater than P(serious illness or death from vaccination) + (1 - P(serious illness or death from vaccination)) x P(serious illness or death from their first COVID infection|vaccinated).
wokwokwok 5y ago
Did you read the article? > Still, Thålin and other researchers stress that deliberate infection among unvaccinated people would put them at significant risk of severe disease and death, or the lingering, significant symptoms of what has been dubbed Long Covid. > The study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. > COVID-19 has already killed more than 4 million people worldwide and there are concerns that Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants are deadlier than the original virus.
- angelzen 5y ago
  These are valid points, not sure why you are downvoted. One more question: What is the epidemiological profile (LongCovid/IHR/IFR) by age group, compared with the flu?

xyzzyz 5y ago

The vaccine does not “guarantee” protection from other variants, but it does have some, more for some variants and apparently less for others (delta). But, the same can be said about prior infection: it does not “guarantee” protection from other variants either. The paper here provides evidence that even though neither of them “guarantee” immunity for other variants or reinfection, prior infection provides more protection from COVID-19 than currently used vaccines.

seoaeu 5y ago

Vaccination guarantees some immunity for all existing variants. Just because it is impossible to say for all hypothetical future variants doesn't mean you need to spread misinformation like that

abnorxiouster 5y ago
Why do you misinform ? This discusson has already been done here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28317866 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28317866 The covid vaccine works more like a laser providing immunity to a specific variant. It does not guarantee "some" immunity for the other variants. Instead new vaccines are created to target the other specific variants which is what companies like pfizer already work on by the way.
- kemayo 5y ago
  The discussion on that post seems to support the grandparent, not you. Also, the article it's talking about says > The new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying “single letter” changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection. I.e. the current vaccines are not laser-focused, but are in fact less focused than a natural infection response, meaning they're better at covering against variants. The most charitable read I can think of for your comments is that you're taking "immunity" to mean only the absolute you-cannot-catch-this-at-all level. Whereas the vaccines (and natural immunity) work far more on a gradient -- your immune system is primed to fight the disease off, and so your outcome at every stage is better than it would otherwise have been.
  - tzs 5y ago
    Note that the article was talking about the spike protein. I believe natural immunity also can target parts of SARS-CoV-19 that are not part of the spike protein. In that sense vaccines are more focused, but the focus is on a part of the virus that is critical for getting into cells. There are limits to how far the spike protein can mutate and still do its job and the vaccine immunity covers a large part of that space.
    - Ancapistani 5y ago
      > Note that the article was talking about the spike protein. I believe natural immunity also can target parts of SARS-CoV-19 that are not part of the spike protein. This is my understanding as well. Vaccine-derived immunity is more broad with respect to potential mutation of the spike protein/"receptor binding domain". Natural immunity is more broad with respect to the entire virus, as antibodies target areas other than the spike protein itself. I believe that antibodies specific to the spike protein more significantly reduce the chance of initial infection, while antibodies specific to other areas of the virus are more effective at reducing the chance of developing symptoms.
      - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tzs 5y ago

> You get vaccinated against an extremely specific variant, that does not guarantee any immunity for other variants unlike immunity from infection. The current vaccines in the US provide excellent protection against serious illness or death from all current variations. It is only protection against infection that has fallen off some with the variations. > Did you get vaccinated every year for the seasonal flu pre 2020? Yes. > Why would you suggest anyone that is not in a risk group and is healthy to vaccinate when his body is better prepared to withstand and easily battle any sars-cov-19 variant? Because P(serious illness or death from their first COVID infection|not vaccinated) is much greater than P(serious illness or death from vaccination) + (1 - P(serious illness or death from vaccination)) x P(serious illness or death from their first COVID infection|vaccinated).

wokwokwok 5y ago

Did you read the article? > Still, Thålin and other researchers stress that deliberate infection among unvaccinated people would put them at significant risk of severe disease and death, or the lingering, significant symptoms of what has been dubbed Long Covid. > The study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. > COVID-19 has already killed more than 4 million people worldwide and there are concerns that Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants are deadlier than the original virus.

angelzen 5y ago
These are valid points, not sure why you are downvoted. One more question: What is the epidemiological profile (LongCovid/IHR/IFR) by age group, compared with the flu?