4 ms·

Wearing a mask is a mild annoyance. With vaccine, you might suffer side effects, but even that is short term. It's basically no-brainer, since getting infected

by kiba 5y ago

Wearing a mask is a mild annoyance. With vaccine, you might suffer side effects, but even that is short term. It's basically no-brainer, since getting infected with the virus is more likely to kill you than getting the vaccine. The only reason people are not getting the vaccine is for various reasons they don't trust that the vaccine is going to help them. Everything else is justification.

vibrato2 5y ago
Did you miss the part of the fda statement this week where they said they have no long term data available?
- jjuel 5y ago
  Do you also realize the disease has only been around for maybe around 2 years at most? So we really have no long term data on effects from getting COVID naturally either. Considering we have plenty of data on other vaccines being quite safe in the long term. I would rather play that game than the "I am relatively healthy so I'll risk getting a deadly disease" I am aware I could still get COVID while vaccinated, but I also know that the chances of getting serious illness while vaccinated are much much lower than if I wasn't.
  - vibrato2 5y ago
    We have no encouraging long term data from any mRNA therapy. this is brand new. The animal tests were concerning to put it mildly. Your chances of serious illness are lower for now. ADE shows dose dependent acceleration, so by the 4th or 5th booster it may be a different story.
    - obelos 5y ago
      What animal tests? Are there even any hypothesized mechanisms by which an mRNA therapy, as a general method, would produce long term consequences? It's fragile and decomposes in the body over the course of a couple weeks, leaving no trace except whatever proteins the sequence describes. That's not to say the specific proteins produced couldn't engender longer-term consequences, but I'm missing how that can be generalized to human-devised mRNA in total.
    - kemayo 5y ago
      This says that there was a viral Facebook post making claims about animal tests, which are very much wrong: https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vaccine-animal-testing/ https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vaccine-animal-testing/ Also, this says that the covid vaccines specifically passed animal trials: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccine-animal/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-did-not-skip-animal-trials-because-of-animal-deaths-idUSL2N2NJ1IK https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccine-anim...
      - vibrato2 5y ago
        Of course they “didn’t skip animal tests due to the animals dying” the animals couldn’t have died if they skipped the test! Use primary sources for scientific arguments.
nanis 5y ago
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796
- VBprogrammer 5y ago
  2.5 billion people have had at least one vaccine.
  - nanis 5y ago
    > 2.5 billion people have had at least one vaccine. Does that mean Lisa Shaw did not die? Or that we would still have known about the cause of her death if she were not well known? Or, is the number of people who are vaccinated enough of a reason to ignore the concerns of people who got Covid19 and recovered? How much of "long Covid19" due to horrendous treatment at hospitals of Covid19 patients with unnecessary intubations, severe isolation from friends and family, and the general medial establishment panic? In the U.S., 95% of deaths with Covid19 are in people over 50. Covid19 accounts for 0.7% of deaths among people under 18.[1] I am sure, the case surveillance data[2] has more interesting nuggets. So, given low risk to an otherwise well person who has not been living in complete isolation since March 2020 (there are a lot of them in the world), given the trend of increasing breakthrough infections and deaths, it is not obvious that averages are very meaningful to individual decision making. [1]: https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... [2]: https://data.cdc.gov/Case-Surveillance/COVID-19-Case-Surveillance-Public-Use-Data/vbim-akqf https://data.cdc.gov/Case-Surveillance/COVID-19-Case-Surveil...
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      > The clots are considered extremely rare - there have been 417 reported cases and 72 deaths - after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK. That's 72 deaths among millions. You're trying to describe COVID as "given low risk to an otherwise well person", but you're still off by many orders of magnitude. Using this site[1] we see that he current 0-59 death rate is 0.2%. That would be nearly 100,000 dead to get a comparable rate.

by kiba 5y ago

vibrato2 5y ago

Did you miss the part of the fda statement this week where they said they have no long term data available?

jjuel 5y ago
Do you also realize the disease has only been around for maybe around 2 years at most? So we really have no long term data on effects from getting COVID naturally either. Considering we have plenty of data on other vaccines being quite safe in the long term. I would rather play that game than the "I am relatively healthy so I'll risk getting a deadly disease" I am aware I could still get COVID while vaccinated, but I also know that the chances of getting serious illness while vaccinated are much much lower than if I wasn't.
- vibrato2 5y ago
  We have no encouraging long term data from any mRNA therapy. this is brand new. The animal tests were concerning to put it mildly. Your chances of serious illness are lower for now. ADE shows dose dependent acceleration, so by the 4th or 5th booster it may be a different story.
  - obelos 5y ago
    What animal tests? Are there even any hypothesized mechanisms by which an mRNA therapy, as a general method, would produce long term consequences? It's fragile and decomposes in the body over the course of a couple weeks, leaving no trace except whatever proteins the sequence describes. That's not to say the specific proteins produced couldn't engender longer-term consequences, but I'm missing how that can be generalized to human-devised mRNA in total.
  - kemayo 5y ago
    This says that there was a viral Facebook post making claims about animal tests, which are very much wrong: https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vaccine-animal-testing/ https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vaccine-animal-testing/ Also, this says that the covid vaccines specifically passed animal trials: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccine-animal/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-did-not-skip-animal-trials-because-of-animal-deaths-idUSL2N2NJ1IK https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccine-anim...
    - vibrato2 5y ago
      Of course they “didn’t skip animal tests due to the animals dying” the animals couldn’t have died if they skipped the test! Use primary sources for scientific arguments.

nanis 5y ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

VBprogrammer 5y ago
2.5 billion people have had at least one vaccine.
- nanis 5y ago
  > 2.5 billion people have had at least one vaccine. Does that mean Lisa Shaw did not die? Or that we would still have known about the cause of her death if she were not well known? Or, is the number of people who are vaccinated enough of a reason to ignore the concerns of people who got Covid19 and recovered? How much of "long Covid19" due to horrendous treatment at hospitals of Covid19 patients with unnecessary intubations, severe isolation from friends and family, and the general medial establishment panic? In the U.S., 95% of deaths with Covid19 are in people over 50. Covid19 accounts for 0.7% of deaths among people under 18.[1] I am sure, the case surveillance data[2] has more interesting nuggets. So, given low risk to an otherwise well person who has not been living in complete isolation since March 2020 (there are a lot of them in the world), given the trend of increasing breakthrough infections and deaths, it is not obvious that averages are very meaningful to individual decision making. [1]: https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... [2]: https://data.cdc.gov/Case-Surveillance/COVID-19-Case-Surveillance-Public-Use-Data/vbim-akqf https://data.cdc.gov/Case-Surveillance/COVID-19-Case-Surveil...
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    > The clots are considered extremely rare - there have been 417 reported cases and 72 deaths - after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK. That's 72 deaths among millions. You're trying to describe COVID as "given low risk to an otherwise well person", but you're still off by many orders of magnitude. Using this site[1] we see that he current 0-59 death rate is 0.2%. That would be nearly 100,000 dead to get a comparable rate.