3 ms·

If we were to live in a world where we are measured by our productivity, we would ALL be treated like the replaceable cogs from the Chinese factory.

tclancy 5y ago
If that’s frightening to you, I think you’re seeing the point.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Isn't that frightening to you? What makes you think you would not be living under the whip?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    I think parent's point is: why do we think it is ok to treat some people this way and not others?
    - rglullis 5y ago
      - Because the people that already found a way to display the scarcity of their talent or abilities don't need to subject themselves to a system that measures them by their productivity. - Because it is not on "us" to try to change this at an universal scale. I am all for people that believe in communist ideals and go to live on their own with like-minded people. The problem is those that take this to totalitarianism and think something like "communism can only work if it everyone does it" - Because history has witnessed already many people that tried to change this reality without ignoring scale, and ended up causing more problems that solutions, destroyed more wealth and made the world worse than they started off.
UncleMeat 5y ago
Do you feel that your productivity as a trained professional is the same as anybody else's productivity? The trick would be to allow workers to capture all of their productivity rather than have a large amount of it syphoned off by owners.
- rglullis 5y ago
  > Do you feel that your productivity as a trained professional is the same as anybody else's productivity? How would you even compare that? How would you even measure your productivity? Lines of code? Tickets closed? We can't even compare "productivity" in our own "profession", much less between different ones. Fuck, even to think in terms of "professions" today seems so anachronistic... some of the best people I worked with were never trained, should we disregard them and go back to a world of credentialism and guilds? > The trick would be to allow workers to capture all of their productivity rather than have a large amount of it syphoned off by owners. More likely, entrepreneurs would simply automate the shit of out of their work and outsource what is not automatable to other service providers. And all of the "workers" who can not think for themselves will be left jobless and crying for someone to help them.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    > How would you even compare that? How would you even measure your productivity? Lines of code? Tickets closed? How would you measure your scarcity? It is similarly difficult. "Workers are paid according to their productivity" does not mean "there is a fixed mechanical pay formula based on lines of code or something". > More likely, entrepreneurs would simply automate the shit of out of their work and outsource what is not automatable to other service providers. And all of the "workers" who can not think for themselves will be left jobless and crying for someone to help them. If entrepreneurs can already do this, why the fuck are they paying so much money for engineers in the bay area? Wouldn't "can be replaced by machines" be the literal minimum possible scarcity?
    - rglullis 5y ago
      > If entrepreneurs can already do this, why the fuck are they paying so much money for engineers in the bay area? Because these people are scarce and companies can't automate that type of job. Yet. But, just look at what happened when Facebook decided to not pay SF salaries to those that moved out of the Bay Area. That was just Zuck saying "if you want be anywhere in the world to work here, then I can also look anywhere in the world to hire people", which instantly made them realize that they are not that scarce anymore. > How would you measure your scarcity? - My employer finds someone that can do my job for less money than I am asking, so they replace me. I am not as scarce as I thought. - Some other company will offer more money to do the same job I am doing currently. I am more scarce than I thought. - I work on new things, show experience or an ability that not everyone in the company can - let's say I am now able to manage a team of developers or I can work on both the backend and do devops. My scarcity increased. It's not that hard.

tclancy 5y ago

If that’s frightening to you, I think you’re seeing the point.

rglullis 5y ago
Isn't that frightening to you? What makes you think you would not be living under the whip?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I think parent's point is: why do we think it is ok to treat some people this way and not others?
  - rglullis 5y ago
    - Because the people that already found a way to display the scarcity of their talent or abilities don't need to subject themselves to a system that measures them by their productivity. - Because it is not on "us" to try to change this at an universal scale. I am all for people that believe in communist ideals and go to live on their own with like-minded people. The problem is those that take this to totalitarianism and think something like "communism can only work if it everyone does it" - Because history has witnessed already many people that tried to change this reality without ignoring scale, and ended up causing more problems that solutions, destroyed more wealth and made the world worse than they started off.

UncleMeat 5y ago

Do you feel that your productivity as a trained professional is the same as anybody else's productivity? The trick would be to allow workers to capture all of their productivity rather than have a large amount of it syphoned off by owners.

rglullis 5y ago
> Do you feel that your productivity as a trained professional is the same as anybody else's productivity? How would you even compare that? How would you even measure your productivity? Lines of code? Tickets closed? We can't even compare "productivity" in our own "profession", much less between different ones. Fuck, even to think in terms of "professions" today seems so anachronistic... some of the best people I worked with were never trained, should we disregard them and go back to a world of credentialism and guilds? > The trick would be to allow workers to capture all of their productivity rather than have a large amount of it syphoned off by owners. More likely, entrepreneurs would simply automate the shit of out of their work and outsource what is not automatable to other service providers. And all of the "workers" who can not think for themselves will be left jobless and crying for someone to help them.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  > How would you even compare that? How would you even measure your productivity? Lines of code? Tickets closed? How would you measure your scarcity? It is similarly difficult. "Workers are paid according to their productivity" does not mean "there is a fixed mechanical pay formula based on lines of code or something". > More likely, entrepreneurs would simply automate the shit of out of their work and outsource what is not automatable to other service providers. And all of the "workers" who can not think for themselves will be left jobless and crying for someone to help them. If entrepreneurs can already do this, why the fuck are they paying so much money for engineers in the bay area? Wouldn't "can be replaced by machines" be the literal minimum possible scarcity?
  - rglullis 5y ago
    > If entrepreneurs can already do this, why the fuck are they paying so much money for engineers in the bay area? Because these people are scarce and companies can't automate that type of job. Yet. But, just look at what happened when Facebook decided to not pay SF salaries to those that moved out of the Bay Area. That was just Zuck saying "if you want be anywhere in the world to work here, then I can also look anywhere in the world to hire people", which instantly made them realize that they are not that scarce anymore. > How would you measure your scarcity? - My employer finds someone that can do my job for less money than I am asking, so they replace me. I am not as scarce as I thought. - Some other company will offer more money to do the same job I am doing currently. I am more scarce than I thought. - I work on new things, show experience or an ability that not everyone in the company can - let's say I am now able to manage a team of developers or I can work on both the backend and do devops. My scarcity increased. It's not that hard.