5 ms·

Who Would Kidnap a Space Telescope?

62 points by lanna 5y ago

perihelions 5y ago
The CIA would! https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/28/1016867/lunik-cia-heist-steal-russian-satellite-space-us-ussr/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/28/1016867/lunik-ci... ("Lunik: Inside the CIA’s audacious plot to steal a Soviet satellite") https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/collection/lunik-loan-space-age-spy-story https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/collection/lunik-loan-space-... ("Lunik on Loan: A Space Age Spy Story")
- retSava 5y ago
  It's pretty funny actually, history is - it turns out - often more incredible than what you would consider a really bad plot point ("naaaaah c'mon that could never happen!"). And many organisms on Earth exceed even really poor middle-grade-school-level-b-movies. As a favorite example, the cordyceps fungus which infect the host and affect the behavior of the host to more easily spread the fungus (eg climb higher before dying). Immortalized via BBC Planet Earth, and PE inspiring the game The Last of Us (filming as a series for HBO). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps
throw3849 5y ago
USA has a navy, just send small destroyer for protection... US navy started against pirates in 1820...
- billyhoffman 5y ago
  (Pushes up glasses) the US Navy was officially created by Congress in 1794 [1] to fight the Barbary Pirates of Northern Africa [2]. 1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Act_of_1794 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Act_of_1794 2- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  Honestly, that should work. The first rule of piracy is "Don't do anything that costs more than you could get." A Naval escort makes an attack very expensive.
bellyfullofbac 5y ago
Well, kidnap as it travels over international waters, so, well, that's not exciting, the title can just be "Who Would Kidnap Precious Cargo?" (answer: sea pirates). I thought it'd be about a telescope already in space, and how some entity managed to send signals to it to move it (from the HTML title as it currently is on my browser: The World's Most Powerful Space Telescope Is Moving). I was wondering what they'd do with it and how they'd hide it. And also why. Thinking about it, obviously radio comms to (and probably from) the satellite is encryped, I wonder if the Bad Guys could hack into the ground station and steal the encryption key...
- spydum 5y ago
  Same, but I'm curious why you think it's encrypted at all? Also makes me curious how resistant to crypto attacks satellites would be, given all the various failings and gotchas with terrestrial tech and tls and others.
  - jaywalk 5y ago
    I'm curious why you think they'd just leave open the ability to destroy a satellite to anyone with a powerful enough transmitter. The telemetry, tracking and control (TT&C) data is absolutely encrypted for any serious satellite operating today.
    - okl 5y ago
      You need authentication, not encryption for that. And yes, every satellite's TTM has an AU (authentication unit) nowadays.
- asmithmd1 5y ago
  I don't think there is any need to encrypt traffic coming from the telescope. One of the (many) compromises in the design is using 26Ghz radios that will be so low power that the only way to downlink data is using the huge Deep Space Network. So many design compromises were forced by not putting nuclear power on the telescope. I really hope it works, but I think the odds of getting much useful science from it slim.
TYPE_FASTER 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Only_Live_Twice_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Only_Live_Twice_(film)
asmithmd1 5y ago
Anyone want that other side of a bet that the Webb telescope will not be doing any science in 2022? Even if it launches, it will be a miracle if it works. They are using so many brand new technologies on a spacecraft operating 3X farther away than the moon.
Pxtl 5y ago
> Webb, with a mirror as tall as a two-story building and a protective shield the size of a tennis court What kind of launch vehicle are they going to be using for that?
- jtsiskin 5y ago
  https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/about/launch.html https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/about/launch.html
- kryptn 5y ago
  The Ariane 5, launching out of French Guiana. The sunshield will be folded on launch, and will unfurl once it reaches L2. Here's a pretty good video that goes through the entire deployment process https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ihVeEoUdo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ihVeEoUdo
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Is there an orbital trajectory or launch-facility-resources reason to be launching out of FG, or is it political? Seems like the easiest way to avoid sea pirates would be to launch the Webb from its current country of residence.
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      ESA launches out of FG. The reasons are its equatorial location, which makes it suitable (lower energy requirements) for geosynchronous orbits and, like Florida for NASA, the ocean to the east which reduces the downrange risks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiana_Space_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiana_Space_Centre
  - optimalsolver 5y ago
    Hopefully no integer overflow on this launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk https://hownot2code.com/2016/09/02/a-space-error-370-million-for-an-integer-overflow/ https://hownot2code.com/2016/09/02/a-space-error-370-million...
jacquesm 5y ago
Do KHs count?

62 points by lanna 5y ago

The CIA would! https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/28/1016867/lunik-cia-heist-steal-russian-satellite-space-us-ussr/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/28/1016867/lunik-ci... ("Lunik: Inside the CIA’s audacious plot to steal a Soviet satellite") https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/collection/lunik-loan-space-age-spy-story https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/collection/lunik-loan-space-... ("Lunik on Loan: A Space Age Spy Story")

retSava 5y ago
It's pretty funny actually, history is - it turns out - often more incredible than what you would consider a really bad plot point ("naaaaah c'mon that could never happen!"). And many organisms on Earth exceed even really poor middle-grade-school-level-b-movies. As a favorite example, the cordyceps fungus which infect the host and affect the behavior of the host to more easily spread the fungus (eg climb higher before dying). Immortalized via BBC Planet Earth, and PE inspiring the game The Last of Us (filming as a series for HBO). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps

throw3849 5y ago

USA has a navy, just send small destroyer for protection... US navy started against pirates in 1820...

billyhoffman 5y ago
(Pushes up glasses) the US Navy was officially created by Congress in 1794 [1] to fight the Barbary Pirates of Northern Africa [2]. 1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Act_of_1794 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Act_of_1794 2- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars
shadowgovt 5y ago
Honestly, that should work. The first rule of piracy is "Don't do anything that costs more than you could get." A Naval escort makes an attack very expensive.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago

Well, kidnap as it travels over international waters, so, well, that's not exciting, the title can just be "Who Would Kidnap Precious Cargo?" (answer: sea pirates). I thought it'd be about a telescope already in space, and how some entity managed to send signals to it to move it (from the HTML title as it currently is on my browser: The World's Most Powerful Space Telescope Is Moving). I was wondering what they'd do with it and how they'd hide it. And also why. Thinking about it, obviously radio comms to (and probably from) the satellite is encryped, I wonder if the Bad Guys could hack into the ground station and steal the encryption key...

spydum 5y ago
Same, but I'm curious why you think it's encrypted at all? Also makes me curious how resistant to crypto attacks satellites would be, given all the various failings and gotchas with terrestrial tech and tls and others.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  I'm curious why you think they'd just leave open the ability to destroy a satellite to anyone with a powerful enough transmitter. The telemetry, tracking and control (TT&C) data is absolutely encrypted for any serious satellite operating today.
  - okl 5y ago
    You need authentication, not encryption for that. And yes, every satellite's TTM has an AU (authentication unit) nowadays.
asmithmd1 5y ago
I don't think there is any need to encrypt traffic coming from the telescope. One of the (many) compromises in the design is using 26Ghz radios that will be so low power that the only way to downlink data is using the huge Deep Space Network. So many design compromises were forced by not putting nuclear power on the telescope. I really hope it works, but I think the odds of getting much useful science from it slim.

TYPE_FASTER 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Only_Live_Twice_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Only_Live_Twice_(film)

asmithmd1 5y ago

Anyone want that other side of a bet that the Webb telescope will not be doing any science in 2022? Even if it launches, it will be a miracle if it works. They are using so many brand new technologies on a spacecraft operating 3X farther away than the moon.

Pxtl 5y ago

> Webb, with a mirror as tall as a two-story building and a protective shield the size of a tennis court What kind of launch vehicle are they going to be using for that?

jtsiskin 5y ago
https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/about/launch.html https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/about/launch.html
kryptn 5y ago
The Ariane 5, launching out of French Guiana. The sunshield will be folded on launch, and will unfurl once it reaches L2. Here's a pretty good video that goes through the entire deployment process https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ihVeEoUdo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ihVeEoUdo
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  Is there an orbital trajectory or launch-facility-resources reason to be launching out of FG, or is it political? Seems like the easiest way to avoid sea pirates would be to launch the Webb from its current country of residence.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    ESA launches out of FG. The reasons are its equatorial location, which makes it suitable (lower energy requirements) for geosynchronous orbits and, like Florida for NASA, the ocean to the east which reduces the downrange risks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiana_Space_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiana_Space_Centre
- optimalsolver 5y ago
  Hopefully no integer overflow on this launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk https://hownot2code.com/2016/09/02/a-space-error-370-million-for-an-integer-overflow/ https://hownot2code.com/2016/09/02/a-space-error-370-million...

jacquesm 5y ago

Do KHs count?