4 ms·

Today the slogan for all big Americans tech companies is more like "we are going in this direction and you are probably dumb enough to just agree with our terms

Today the slogan for all big Americans tech companies is more like "we are going in this direction and you are probably dumb enough to just agree with our terms".

snarf21 5y ago
I think that is a little unfair. The tech companies still do some stuff that provides value to people and usually for free. Additionally, grandma isn't going to be rooting phones and installing toolchains and managing their own hardware and OS. Making tech trivial to use and "just work" at scale is hard. Doing it all for free is even harder.
- panta 5y ago
  The point is that they aren't doing it for free. Users are not paying with money, but are paying nonetheless, with privacy and freedoms mainly.
  - mdorazio 5y ago
    And the problem with that is most users have definitively and repeatedly voted with their wallets that they would rather give up privacy and freedoms than pay money. The vast majority of consumers simply don't care, and the HN audience are outliers.
    - piaste 5y ago
      People also were happy to buy unsafe food at low prices, or cars without seat belts and airbag. Consumers make myopic choices all the time, and it's legitimate to establish regulations enforcing a more long-term outlook.
  - snarf21 5y ago
    Right but freedom is never free. It is free if users think it is free. Companies use lots of chemicals that are unhealthy in/on/around all our food (even "organic") but growing all your own food is untenable, unless we revert to agrarian societies.
- gauravjain13 5y ago
  Doing it “free” is impossible, hence the ad-tech shitshow.
jrm4 5y ago
No, the real problem is creators/stewards in technology (e.g. most of the people here) are dumb and oblivious enough to sign on to the idea that "average joe, who must use a baseline of our particular mix of technologies to merely get by in this world, is fully and completely consenting to the entire range of whatever those huge companies dictate because a wall of text flashed by them when they turned the thing on." This notion is UTTER B.S. and needs to die quickly, and it is wholly unfair to put this on the users and not the creators and big companies. (Yes, I am lawyer, and it is absolutely immoral to abuse our notions of contract law in this fashion. Gives the whole system a very bad name.)
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Amen. The law needs to change to require informed user consent.
  - nisegami 5y ago
    What would it change? I can't think of anyone from my immediate family who would ever not give permission to a popup that requested it.
  - jrm4 5y ago
    More than that. When manufacturers were letting rat poop get into the ketchup, we didn't create the FDA to make sure that "rat poop" was clearly printed on the label.
    - yashasolutions 5y ago
      brilliant way to put it
  - belorn 5y ago
    GDPR tried to do that, and the governments charged to enforce it decided to not enforce it. It is one of the primary reason why there are people saying that only a few single digit percent of websites actually comply with GDPR, and why consent popup that most sites use do not actually conform to the law.

Today the slogan for all big Americans tech companies is more like "we are going in this direction and you are probably dumb enough to just agree with our terms".

snarf21 5y ago

I think that is a little unfair. The tech companies still do some stuff that provides value to people and usually for free. Additionally, grandma isn't going to be rooting phones and installing toolchains and managing their own hardware and OS. Making tech trivial to use and "just work" at scale is hard. Doing it all for free is even harder.

panta 5y ago
The point is that they aren't doing it for free. Users are not paying with money, but are paying nonetheless, with privacy and freedoms mainly.
- mdorazio 5y ago
  And the problem with that is most users have definitively and repeatedly voted with their wallets that they would rather give up privacy and freedoms than pay money. The vast majority of consumers simply don't care, and the HN audience are outliers.
  - piaste 5y ago
    People also were happy to buy unsafe food at low prices, or cars without seat belts and airbag. Consumers make myopic choices all the time, and it's legitimate to establish regulations enforcing a more long-term outlook.
- snarf21 5y ago
  Right but freedom is never free. It is free if users think it is free. Companies use lots of chemicals that are unhealthy in/on/around all our food (even "organic") but growing all your own food is untenable, unless we revert to agrarian societies.
gauravjain13 5y ago
Doing it “free” is impossible, hence the ad-tech shitshow.

jrm4 5y ago

No, the real problem is creators/stewards in technology (e.g. most of the people here) are dumb and oblivious enough to sign on to the idea that "average joe, who must use a baseline of our particular mix of technologies to merely get by in this world, is fully and completely consenting to the entire range of whatever those huge companies dictate because a wall of text flashed by them when they turned the thing on." This notion is UTTER B.S. and needs to die quickly, and it is wholly unfair to put this on the users and not the creators and big companies. (Yes, I am lawyer, and it is absolutely immoral to abuse our notions of contract law in this fashion. Gives the whole system a very bad name.)

elliekelly 5y ago
Amen. The law needs to change to require informed user consent.
- nisegami 5y ago
  What would it change? I can't think of anyone from my immediate family who would ever not give permission to a popup that requested it.
- jrm4 5y ago
  More than that. When manufacturers were letting rat poop get into the ketchup, we didn't create the FDA to make sure that "rat poop" was clearly printed on the label.
  - yashasolutions 5y ago
    brilliant way to put it
- belorn 5y ago
  GDPR tried to do that, and the governments charged to enforce it decided to not enforce it. It is one of the primary reason why there are people saying that only a few single digit percent of websites actually comply with GDPR, and why consent popup that most sites use do not actually conform to the law.