5 ms·

Up until May of last year the United States didn't even have human launch capability. Not a hell of a lot you can do with an orbital station if you can't send p

by m0zg 5y ago

Up until May of last year the United States didn't even have human launch capability. Not a hell of a lot you can do with an orbital station if you can't send people up there. > From sourcing parts for the Mir station at the local flea market They use mil-spec parts for that, and you can't buy them at a "flea market". > the whole year the salaries weren't paid and nobody was working This, on the other hand, is plausible. 90s were a shitshow, hence Putin and "order".

relativ575 5y ago
> Up until May of last year the United States didn't even have human launch capability NASA could have kept the Shuttle after 2011 if there were no other options. They figured they could rely on Soyuz for a few years until Starliner and Crew Dragon were ready. It's worth noting that during this time Roscosmos, like a true capitalist, jacked up Soyuz seat price to $90 million from the low of $21.3 million - [0] [0] - https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/10/13/nasa-uses-final-purchased-soyuz-seat-for-wednesday-flight-to-station/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/10/13/nasa-uses-final-purcha...
- m0zg 5y ago
  Coulda, woulda. They didn't. And Shuttle cost $1B per launch. That is nuts even by US government standards. That's also why the USSR abandoned theirs, even though theirs was much cheaper - no need for three dozen subcontractors to each make a hefty profit.
trhway 5y ago
>They use mil-spec parts for that, and you can't buy them at a "flea market". you probably just don't know what you're talking about. I've used mil-spec parts in my teenage hobby electronic projects in 198x. The parts in the Mir story were already not available from manufacturer, nor there were any spare parts stores as most of the stuff was already stolen like many things back then in Russia (and many of those things ended on flea markets or sold for scrap). Fortunately, they were able to find those parts on that large flea market ("na razvalah" of old electronics, back then Avtovo was the place https://sudonull.com/post/160488-St-Petersburg-radio-market-Juno https://sudonull.com/post/160488-St-Petersburg-radio-market-...) in particular because the parts were already outdated for consumer use by that time.
- m0zg 5y ago
  Not _those_ parts. We're talking ceramic cased hardened ICs with gold plated leads and stuff like that (see https://habr.com/ru/post/156049/ https://habr.com/ru/post/156049/). Stuff that goes into space and to nuclear power stations in particular is the very highest grade available, no expense spared. You may still find it at flea markets from time to time (surplus or desoldered), but you're unlikely to find it in quantity. Russia does not build its weapons and space tech from "flea market" grade parts. It never did. It's one of the very few areas of the economy that haven't completely fallen apart during the 90s, long delays in payroll notwithstanding.
  - trhway 5y ago
    >Not _those_ parts. well, one of the source of our parts were missile guidance modules from a used hardware dumps in our Navy base town :) >Russia does not build its weapons and space tech from "flea market" grade parts. don't worry, the parts were real deal, just not available through official channels anymore, and they bought on the flea market much more parts than was needed, tested all of them and sent to the Mir those which tested best. After all they were old school professionals. The people like this was that part "that haven't completely fallen apart during the 90s", and which brought the country through the 90s. And wrt. weapons - nobody probably told you about electronic bays completely gutted in 90s for the "gold plated contacts" electronics even on active duty military systems like Navy ships for example. The things did fall apart during 90s much more than you seem to be imagining. >Stuff that goes into space and to nuclear power stations in particular is the very highest grade available, no expense spared. and that reminded me about the nuclear powered cruiser "Petr the Great". At some point i worked together with 2 accountants who had before been accountants at that Navy yards which was building "Petr the Great" and they worked on that project. They told me a lot, in particular about the state the cruiser was launched and delivered at (like completely missing almost all electronics as it was stolen each time despite having been ordered several times). Anyway, publicly available, that is just a minor item compare to the whole picture - rupture of the steam pipe of the ship's power plant killing 5 because the pipe had thinner walls and was of worse quality metal than what was specified in the design doc. https://lenta.ru/articles/2004/03/24/petr/ https://lenta.ru/articles/2004/03/24/petr/
monkeycantype 5y ago
So my personal anecdote is from 1990, but yes in the nineties you can buy milspec gear at the flea market (I really wanted the tank periscope with night vision but couldn’t afford it)
- m0zg 5y ago
  Doesn't mean you could launch it to space like OP is suggesting.
  - monkeycantype 5y ago
    No, but I could have pretended to drive a tank in the dark
    - pbaka 5y ago
      So say we all !

by m0zg 5y ago

relativ575 5y ago

> Up until May of last year the United States didn't even have human launch capability NASA could have kept the Shuttle after 2011 if there were no other options. They figured they could rely on Soyuz for a few years until Starliner and Crew Dragon were ready. It's worth noting that during this time Roscosmos, like a true capitalist, jacked up Soyuz seat price to $90 million from the low of $21.3 million - [0] [0] - https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/10/13/nasa-uses-final-purchased-soyuz-seat-for-wednesday-flight-to-station/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/10/13/nasa-uses-final-purcha...

m0zg 5y ago
Coulda, woulda. They didn't. And Shuttle cost $1B per launch. That is nuts even by US government standards. That's also why the USSR abandoned theirs, even though theirs was much cheaper - no need for three dozen subcontractors to each make a hefty profit.

trhway 5y ago

>They use mil-spec parts for that, and you can't buy them at a "flea market". you probably just don't know what you're talking about. I've used mil-spec parts in my teenage hobby electronic projects in 198x. The parts in the Mir story were already not available from manufacturer, nor there were any spare parts stores as most of the stuff was already stolen like many things back then in Russia (and many of those things ended on flea markets or sold for scrap). Fortunately, they were able to find those parts on that large flea market ("na razvalah" of old electronics, back then Avtovo was the place https://sudonull.com/post/160488-St-Petersburg-radio-market-Juno https://sudonull.com/post/160488-St-Petersburg-radio-market-...) in particular because the parts were already outdated for consumer use by that time.

m0zg 5y ago
Not _those_ parts. We're talking ceramic cased hardened ICs with gold plated leads and stuff like that (see https://habr.com/ru/post/156049/ https://habr.com/ru/post/156049/). Stuff that goes into space and to nuclear power stations in particular is the very highest grade available, no expense spared. You may still find it at flea markets from time to time (surplus or desoldered), but you're unlikely to find it in quantity. Russia does not build its weapons and space tech from "flea market" grade parts. It never did. It's one of the very few areas of the economy that haven't completely fallen apart during the 90s, long delays in payroll notwithstanding.
- trhway 5y ago
  >Not _those_ parts. well, one of the source of our parts were missile guidance modules from a used hardware dumps in our Navy base town :) >Russia does not build its weapons and space tech from "flea market" grade parts. don't worry, the parts were real deal, just not available through official channels anymore, and they bought on the flea market much more parts than was needed, tested all of them and sent to the Mir those which tested best. After all they were old school professionals. The people like this was that part "that haven't completely fallen apart during the 90s", and which brought the country through the 90s. And wrt. weapons - nobody probably told you about electronic bays completely gutted in 90s for the "gold plated contacts" electronics even on active duty military systems like Navy ships for example. The things did fall apart during 90s much more than you seem to be imagining. >Stuff that goes into space and to nuclear power stations in particular is the very highest grade available, no expense spared. and that reminded me about the nuclear powered cruiser "Petr the Great". At some point i worked together with 2 accountants who had before been accountants at that Navy yards which was building "Petr the Great" and they worked on that project. They told me a lot, in particular about the state the cruiser was launched and delivered at (like completely missing almost all electronics as it was stolen each time despite having been ordered several times). Anyway, publicly available, that is just a minor item compare to the whole picture - rupture of the steam pipe of the ship's power plant killing 5 because the pipe had thinner walls and was of worse quality metal than what was specified in the design doc. https://lenta.ru/articles/2004/03/24/petr/ https://lenta.ru/articles/2004/03/24/petr/

monkeycantype 5y ago

So my personal anecdote is from 1990, but yes in the nineties you can buy milspec gear at the flea market (I really wanted the tank periscope with night vision but couldn’t afford it)

m0zg 5y ago
Doesn't mean you could launch it to space like OP is suggesting.
- monkeycantype 5y ago
  No, but I could have pretended to drive a tank in the dark
  - pbaka 5y ago
    So say we all !