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The unvaccinated are volunteering themselves as breeders for the next stronger and nastier version of covid, and they pose an active danger to those who cannot

The unvaccinated are volunteering themselves as breeders for the next stronger and nastier version of covid, and they pose an active danger to those who cannot be vaccinated.

munk-a 5y ago
And, honestly, those who have been vaccinated. Covid-19 has been observed to spread more easily in populations with large unvaccinated proportion and end up infecting (and killing) a larger number of vaccinated people. Additionally, I am extremely concerned that their irresponsible actions are going to let Covid-19 mutate enough that it can work out a variant that the vaccine will be ineffective against.
strenholme 5y ago
Agreed. The main COVID-19 mutations of concern right now are happening in other countries where the vaccine is not widely available yet. The Delta variant was first seen in India, the Beta variant was first seen in South Africa, and the Gamma variant was first seen in Brazil. We need to make sure the entire world is vaccinated to stop these mutations from coming out of the woodwork. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2 for sources and discussion)
incrudible 5y ago
This is speculation. I might as well speculate that a vaccine that does not prevent infection or spread, but also puts selective pressure on the virus to escape vaccine immunity, is likely to lead to a vaccine-escape mutation when administered to a large population. This mutation then poses a risk to those who would need the vaccine that has now become ineffective. The fact that we currently see mutations coming out populations that aren't vaccinated is a number's game. Most of the world population is not vaccinated. Vaccinating the last 30% in developed nations will not change that.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  Speaking of speculation, I would strongly speculate that the vaccine will greatly increase the spread of illness. If the vaccines dull the symptoms to the point that vaccinated people don't readily know that they're sick, then vaccinated people aren't going to be staying home when they're carriers. In contrast, it seems far likelier that unvaccinated people will feel ill and stay home.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    That is a very real danger with constant medication and vaccination - however the observed effect has been the opposite. The lowered impact of sickness leads to shorter periods of contagiousness which has lowered the spread rate. The vaccine is effectively lowering the r-value. A large proportion of unvaccinated persons is strongly correlated with higher case rates.
    - incrudible 5y ago
      > the observed effect has been the opposite Did you really observe that? There's many highly vaccinated countries that have seen spikes with extremely high r-values.

The unvaccinated are volunteering themselves as breeders for the next stronger and nastier version of covid, and they pose an active danger to those who cannot be vaccinated.

munk-a 5y ago

And, honestly, those who have been vaccinated. Covid-19 has been observed to spread more easily in populations with large unvaccinated proportion and end up infecting (and killing) a larger number of vaccinated people. Additionally, I am extremely concerned that their irresponsible actions are going to let Covid-19 mutate enough that it can work out a variant that the vaccine will be ineffective against.

strenholme 5y ago

Agreed. The main COVID-19 mutations of concern right now are happening in other countries where the vaccine is not widely available yet. The Delta variant was first seen in India, the Beta variant was first seen in South Africa, and the Gamma variant was first seen in Brazil. We need to make sure the entire world is vaccinated to stop these mutations from coming out of the woodwork. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2 for sources and discussion)

incrudible 5y ago

This is speculation. I might as well speculate that a vaccine that does not prevent infection or spread, but also puts selective pressure on the virus to escape vaccine immunity, is likely to lead to a vaccine-escape mutation when administered to a large population. This mutation then poses a risk to those who would need the vaccine that has now become ineffective. The fact that we currently see mutations coming out populations that aren't vaccinated is a number's game. Most of the world population is not vaccinated. Vaccinating the last 30% in developed nations will not change that.

logicalmonster 5y ago
Speaking of speculation, I would strongly speculate that the vaccine will greatly increase the spread of illness. If the vaccines dull the symptoms to the point that vaccinated people don't readily know that they're sick, then vaccinated people aren't going to be staying home when they're carriers. In contrast, it seems far likelier that unvaccinated people will feel ill and stay home.
- munk-a 5y ago
  That is a very real danger with constant medication and vaccination - however the observed effect has been the opposite. The lowered impact of sickness leads to shorter periods of contagiousness which has lowered the spread rate. The vaccine is effectively lowering the r-value. A large proportion of unvaccinated persons is strongly correlated with higher case rates.
  - incrudible 5y ago
    > the observed effect has been the opposite Did you really observe that? There's many highly vaccinated countries that have seen spikes with extremely high r-values.