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> A big change would be letting developers make it clear to users how to use alternative payment options, but Apple's press release only says via e-mail It rea

> A big change would be letting developers make it clear to users how to use alternative payment options, but Apple's press release only says via e-mail It really says something that "allowing" businesses to communicate certain information with their own customers via an independent channel was considered a concession in this settlement. I'm still wrapping my head around it.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
I think it's important to wait for the final language from the settlement. After all, the original PR Post from Apple doesn't actually mention the $100 million fund that Axios does.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  It's mentioned: > Apple will also establish a fund to assist small US developers, particularly as the world continues to suffer from the effects of COVID-19. Eligible developers must have earned $1 million or less through the US storefront for all of their apps in every calendar year in which the developers had an account between June 4, 2015, and April 26, 2021 — encompassing 99 percent of developers in the US. Details will be available at a later date.
cube00 5y ago
They're not your customers, they're Apple's customers and they're granting you a limited audience with them as long as you follow the house rules. Of course if something goes wrong and the customer gets litigious they'll be your customer then.
cgearhart 5y ago
I can feel your frustration, but it also strikes me as tone-deaf to those very same customers. The most common kind of email I send these days—by orders of magnitude—is “unsubscribe”. I don’t want your emails unless I actively asked for them. (And, no, passively being opted in or being forced to opt in by a user agreement or whatever doesn’t count.) I would happily pay middle men a lot extra to get fewer unwanted emails, phone calls, or just generally more privacy. There was an article earlier today on HN about how user-hostile software has become, and I think that explains my problem. Until developers as a whole become not just less hostile, but actively prioritize my needs over their own, I don’t think I’ll change my mind. My real problem is that I don’t have any leverage as an individual customer against hostile developers. So I’m stuck paying mega corps like Apple or Google to be the middle man for me because they _can_ leverage my interests against developers. So I just don’t feel any sympathy when developers complain that they are having a hard time abusing me.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  > I would happily pay middle men a lot extra to get fewer unwanted emails, phone calls, or just generally more privacy. My life has changed significantly for the better ever since I signed up for this: http://33mail.com/AQwZJR3 http://33mail.com/AQwZJR3 The real trick is using a custom domain so A) They’re very unlikely to add it to their disposable email list (and thus block it) B) If this service ever goes under you can still get the emails you want because you own the domain they’re being sent to. Yes you could theoretically implement this yourself in gWorkspace or O365 but that sounds like a ton of work and $12/yr is 1000x worth it. (Disclaimer: that’s my referral link, if enough ppl sign up with it I get a free year of service) I’ve been using it since March of this year and it’s been wonderful, there was like 30 min of downtime once where the dashboard didn’t work but emails were still getting delivered, and I they answered any questions I had when I reached out to them. So I highly recommend it and tell everyone about it.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    On the flip side for Apple users we get up 100 Hide My Emails in iOS 15 with the same functionality.
    - vxNsr 5y ago
      I like the UI of 33mail more. It’s easier to click a link at the top of an email in w/e client you’re using vs digging through apple’s portal and ever changing menus to toggle the right thing off. Unless it’s gotten easier in iOS15… right now on my iPhone it’s not possible to turn off forwarding. I need to go to appleid.apple.com, login, 2FA, find the menu, wait for it to load (bec it always seems to take like 5 seconds, even if I just opened it), figure out which service is the one attached to the email I chose (names of company that makes the app and is thus associated with that ID may not always align with the name I know it as), turn it off. Also I don’t get to choose the email address, instead apple makes it a random mix of letters and numbers: which means I must save it to a password manager and hope I never need to manually type it in for some reason (say on a public PC). With 33mail, the link to disable forwarding is in the header, like any unsubscribe link. You can still manage everything from their portal. You choose the domain and then they set it up as a catch all, to receive everything, except that which you say to deny. So you can have creative names for each service.
noway421 5y ago
Even though not enforceable in practice, you could've been booted off App Store for sending notifications/other means of communication about a cheaper way to pay.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

I think it's important to wait for the final language from the settlement. After all, the original PR Post from Apple doesn't actually mention the $100 million fund that Axios does.

saagarjha 5y ago
It's mentioned: > Apple will also establish a fund to assist small US developers, particularly as the world continues to suffer from the effects of COVID-19. Eligible developers must have earned $1 million or less through the US storefront for all of their apps in every calendar year in which the developers had an account between June 4, 2015, and April 26, 2021 — encompassing 99 percent of developers in the US. Details will be available at a later date.

cube00 5y ago

They're not your customers, they're Apple's customers and they're granting you a limited audience with them as long as you follow the house rules. Of course if something goes wrong and the customer gets litigious they'll be your customer then.

cgearhart 5y ago

I can feel your frustration, but it also strikes me as tone-deaf to those very same customers. The most common kind of email I send these days—by orders of magnitude—is “unsubscribe”. I don’t want your emails unless I actively asked for them. (And, no, passively being opted in or being forced to opt in by a user agreement or whatever doesn’t count.) I would happily pay middle men a lot extra to get fewer unwanted emails, phone calls, or just generally more privacy. There was an article earlier today on HN about how user-hostile software has become, and I think that explains my problem. Until developers as a whole become not just less hostile, but actively prioritize my needs over their own, I don’t think I’ll change my mind. My real problem is that I don’t have any leverage as an individual customer against hostile developers. So I’m stuck paying mega corps like Apple or Google to be the middle man for me because they _can_ leverage my interests against developers. So I just don’t feel any sympathy when developers complain that they are having a hard time abusing me.

vxNsr 5y ago
> I would happily pay middle men a lot extra to get fewer unwanted emails, phone calls, or just generally more privacy. My life has changed significantly for the better ever since I signed up for this: http://33mail.com/AQwZJR3 http://33mail.com/AQwZJR3 The real trick is using a custom domain so A) They’re very unlikely to add it to their disposable email list (and thus block it) B) If this service ever goes under you can still get the emails you want because you own the domain they’re being sent to. Yes you could theoretically implement this yourself in gWorkspace or O365 but that sounds like a ton of work and $12/yr is 1000x worth it. (Disclaimer: that’s my referral link, if enough ppl sign up with it I get a free year of service) I’ve been using it since March of this year and it’s been wonderful, there was like 30 min of downtime once where the dashboard didn’t work but emails were still getting delivered, and I they answered any questions I had when I reached out to them. So I highly recommend it and tell everyone about it.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  On the flip side for Apple users we get up 100 Hide My Emails in iOS 15 with the same functionality.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    I like the UI of 33mail more. It’s easier to click a link at the top of an email in w/e client you’re using vs digging through apple’s portal and ever changing menus to toggle the right thing off. Unless it’s gotten easier in iOS15… right now on my iPhone it’s not possible to turn off forwarding. I need to go to appleid.apple.com, login, 2FA, find the menu, wait for it to load (bec it always seems to take like 5 seconds, even if I just opened it), figure out which service is the one attached to the email I chose (names of company that makes the app and is thus associated with that ID may not always align with the name I know it as), turn it off. Also I don’t get to choose the email address, instead apple makes it a random mix of letters and numbers: which means I must save it to a password manager and hope I never need to manually type it in for some reason (say on a public PC). With 33mail, the link to disable forwarding is in the header, like any unsubscribe link. You can still manage everything from their portal. You choose the domain and then they set it up as a catch all, to receive everything, except that which you say to deny. So you can have creative names for each service.

noway421 5y ago

Even though not enforceable in practice, you could've been booted off App Store for sending notifications/other means of communication about a cheaper way to pay.