4 ms·

The vaccines also lack a specific abnormal side effect that the infection may carry: risk of death and hospitalization. Now with death, one could argue that it

The vaccines also lack a specific abnormal side effect that the infection may carry: risk of death and hospitalization. Now with death, one could argue that it does provide much longer lasting immunity.... Seriously though, for most people the severity of infection-derived immunity is preconditioned upon them surviving the disease so this looks like the classic "planes with bullet holes" image?

fspeech 5y ago
Not with inactivated virus. There are vaccines based on that.
- robbiep 5y ago
  … did you just respond to a statement about the reduction in morbidity and mortality from vaccines compared to infection with the virus… with a statement that says ‘use a vaccine?’
  - fspeech 5y ago
    Opening argument was about robustness of immune response from exposure to the whole virus. GP implied infection was the only way to be exposed to the whole virus. I pointed out such exposure can also be achieved through inactivated virus.
__blockcipher__ 5y ago
> The vaccines also lack a specific abnormal side effect that the infection may carry: risk of death and hospitalization. This is well-intentioned but false. The vaccines can send you to the hospital (side-effects). It's rare but happens. Similarly, you can be vaccinated, get infected with SARS-2, and end up in the hospital, so it's not even true that they avoid hospitalization from SARS-2 itself completely. (They help a lot with hosp/death from the virus, to be clear)
- mindfulplay 5y ago
  The risk associated with the vaccine (and the magnitude) are orders of magnitude lower than that of natural infection-based immunity. The vaccine can almost certainly send a few people to the hospital in the same manner that an airbag could almost certainly cause injuries during an accident. It's very different from a natural infectionimo.
  - bsaul 5y ago
    "the risk associated.... immunity " I know that it's a very unpopular opinion, but i'd say your statement is unfortunately still not 100% proven for every individual. A healthy 20 yo has "almost" 0 chance of having bad outcome from the covid. He also has "almost" zero chance of doing a hearth infection from RNA vaccines, and we have no idea about the long term consequences of both virus and vaccines, since both are only a few years old. Making definitive statements in this context is hard.
    - derkster 5y ago
      Talking about these issues at the individual level when it should talked about in broader terms distorts the reality of the situation. If you try to convince "no-risk" individuals that they should get the vaccine for their own health, you're not going to get very far. But explaining to that same 20 year old that he might unintentionally bring COVID home from college and proceed to unintentionally infect high-risk parents or grandparents? That's where the real damage would comes from. The peace of mind knowing I'm not going to unintentionally kill off members of my family is priceless.
      - bsaul 5y ago
        I'm really glad you bring this argument, because it seems to me as it would be indeed the only "real" reason to have young people vaccinated.. Unfortunately, the recent news on that front don't bring much hope. Vaccinated people can be infected, and transmit the virus to elderly people (the rate at which they do being currently debated among specialist, some claiming it is much less, other claiming it is just as much as non-vaccinated asymptomatic people).

fspeech 5y ago

Not with inactivated virus. There are vaccines based on that.

robbiep 5y ago
… did you just respond to a statement about the reduction in morbidity and mortality from vaccines compared to infection with the virus… with a statement that says ‘use a vaccine?’
- fspeech 5y ago
  Opening argument was about robustness of immune response from exposure to the whole virus. GP implied infection was the only way to be exposed to the whole virus. I pointed out such exposure can also be achieved through inactivated virus.

__blockcipher__ 5y ago

> The vaccines also lack a specific abnormal side effect that the infection may carry: risk of death and hospitalization. This is well-intentioned but false. The vaccines can send you to the hospital (side-effects). It's rare but happens. Similarly, you can be vaccinated, get infected with SARS-2, and end up in the hospital, so it's not even true that they avoid hospitalization from SARS-2 itself completely. (They help a lot with hosp/death from the virus, to be clear)

mindfulplay 5y ago
The risk associated with the vaccine (and the magnitude) are orders of magnitude lower than that of natural infection-based immunity. The vaccine can almost certainly send a few people to the hospital in the same manner that an airbag could almost certainly cause injuries during an accident. It's very different from a natural infectionimo.
- bsaul 5y ago
  "the risk associated.... immunity " I know that it's a very unpopular opinion, but i'd say your statement is unfortunately still not 100% proven for every individual. A healthy 20 yo has "almost" 0 chance of having bad outcome from the covid. He also has "almost" zero chance of doing a hearth infection from RNA vaccines, and we have no idea about the long term consequences of both virus and vaccines, since both are only a few years old. Making definitive statements in this context is hard.
  - derkster 5y ago
    Talking about these issues at the individual level when it should talked about in broader terms distorts the reality of the situation. If you try to convince "no-risk" individuals that they should get the vaccine for their own health, you're not going to get very far. But explaining to that same 20 year old that he might unintentionally bring COVID home from college and proceed to unintentionally infect high-risk parents or grandparents? That's where the real damage would comes from. The peace of mind knowing I'm not going to unintentionally kill off members of my family is priceless.
    - bsaul 5y ago
      I'm really glad you bring this argument, because it seems to me as it would be indeed the only "real" reason to have young people vaccinated.. Unfortunately, the recent news on that front don't bring much hope. Vaccinated people can be infected, and transmit the virus to elderly people (the rate at which they do being currently debated among specialist, some claiming it is much less, other claiming it is just as much as non-vaccinated asymptomatic people).