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"wsl is real Linux" Why don't ya'll just use Linux? This just sounds so much more difficult than using the real thing.

by lugged 5y ago

Tenoke 5y ago
I mostly don't do the extra stuff they do (as they mention Code works seamlessly and thankfully that's good enough for me and obviously emacs/vim do, too), the rest is just slower cross-OS file access and I need to tinker with it only roughly as much as with my Linux installs while getting the benefits of a native Windows install on top. If you need anything Windows-related (e.g. to use a specific game or software) using WSL on top is actually really nice (I do all my real work from there fine when not on my Linux machine currently) and less hassle than dual-booting. If I decide not to use anything Windows related or do GPU-based ML (which I assume is worse on WSl) outside of the cloud I'll install Linux on another drive on this machine and go back to it fully. I honestly never expected to stick to Windows with just WSL on this machine when I put it on for trying some games.
- krinchan 5y ago
  UEFI has really made it difficult to dual boot, especially off the same drive. Windows 10 overwriting your GRUB install every major update is just pure hell. Then if you opt for separate physical disks, you must forego fastboot features so you can use your UEFI Boot Menu to select between separate Win10 and Linux physical disks. That’s why I put up with WSL2. I hate dealing with bootloaders.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    Even if you are fine with fixing bootloaders it's also just a bit much to have to do a full restart to switch between software, and to not be able to use some things side by side.
benbristow 5y ago
You can use software that doesn't work on Linux (without WINE/hacks anyway) but still use the power of GNU/Linux for development style tasks when necessary. It's easier now to just maintain a single installation of Windows than setup a dual boot and continuously switch between whenever you want to edit an image in Photoshop or play a commercial game.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  You can do LSW. That is, just use a Windows VM for those software. You make the same tradeoffs except less often.
  - benbristow 5y ago
    I'd be sacrificing a lot more resources to run a full Windows VM than just using Windows natively. And nevermind doing GPU accelerated tasks unless I want to faff around doing KVM stuff. Easier to just use Windows directly and WSL2 when I need it.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      You're sacrifing the exact same amount when using WSL2. The difference is that Windows is only useful for Photoshop and 3% of video games, while as a developer you're using Linux all day. You're not sacrificing any resources, in both cases you're running a full Linux and a full Windows. As far as GPU acceleration it's just as much of a pain inside of WSL2 than in a regular VM. Fwiw I only use Windows for Genshin Impact now. Photoshop works well enough usig Wine, the installer won't run but that's not an issue.
      - Tenoke 5y ago
        >You're sacrifing the exact same amount when using WSL2. Not really. For one, you are mostly fine running Linux terminal-only so it's really light and you are using less resources with Windows+WSL than Linux + full VM Windows. Second, if you need both Linux and Windows you typically need Windows for something heavy - e.g. a Game, Photoshop, whatever, so having Windows in the VM is typically more limiting.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Photoshop isn't heavy nowadays. Games are, yes, but the vast majority just work natively. Also you really miss a lot of Linux if you're running it terminal only without a GPU. Being unable to use the Jetbrains IDEs on Linux is the biggest one for a developer that's universal to any field. Also if you have to do something heavy, it's almost universally better to do it on Linux, ie, higher speed and better reliability.
hpcjoe 5y ago
It is more difficult, and no, WSL2/WSL is not linux. You see how much it is not linux when you try to do things like install a job scheduler, or a development environment (hint, try to use vscode gui in WSL2, watch the message you get). Real desktop linux has been, and is, a thing. I've been using Linux as my primary business desktop for more than 20 years. Yes, really. Now, in the industry I'm in, I am forced into a windows 10 environment. Which I do the best I can to push out of the way, so I can have a real machine. MobaXterm to provide a single root X window. XFCE4 for windowing, Plank for a dock. WSL2 (unfortunately) underneath, running an older RHEL (not my choice). Looks/feels mostly like a linux box. I use it for dev/testing/analytics/data science. File access is still as slow as sin, network performance is terrible. Windows apps are unstable, and will take down the machine from time to time. I am pushing for a linux laptop/desktop as I am far more productive in that desktop environment. Since most of our work is linux based, this makes sense.

"wsl is real Linux" Why don't ya'll just use Linux? This just sounds so much more difficult than using the real thing.

by lugged 5y ago

"wsl is real Linux" Why don't ya'll just use Linux? This just sounds so much more difficult than using the real thing.

I mostly don't do the extra stuff they do (as they mention Code works seamlessly and thankfully that's good enough for me and obviously emacs/vim do, too), the rest is just slower cross-OS file access and I need to tinker with it only roughly as much as with my Linux installs while getting the benefits of a native Windows install on top. If you need anything Windows-related (e.g. to use a specific game or software) using WSL on top is actually really nice (I do all my real work from there fine when not on my Linux machine currently) and less hassle than dual-booting. If I decide not to use anything Windows related or do GPU-based ML (which I assume is worse on WSl) outside of the cloud I'll install Linux on another drive on this machine and go back to it fully. I honestly never expected to stick to Windows with just WSL on this machine when I put it on for trying some games.

krinchan 5y ago
UEFI has really made it difficult to dual boot, especially off the same drive. Windows 10 overwriting your GRUB install every major update is just pure hell. Then if you opt for separate physical disks, you must forego fastboot features so you can use your UEFI Boot Menu to select between separate Win10 and Linux physical disks. That’s why I put up with WSL2. I hate dealing with bootloaders.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  Even if you are fine with fixing bootloaders it's also just a bit much to have to do a full restart to switch between software, and to not be able to use some things side by side.

benbristow 5y ago

You can use software that doesn't work on Linux (without WINE/hacks anyway) but still use the power of GNU/Linux for development style tasks when necessary. It's easier now to just maintain a single installation of Windows than setup a dual boot and continuously switch between whenever you want to edit an image in Photoshop or play a commercial game.

sudosysgen 5y ago
You can do LSW. That is, just use a Windows VM for those software. You make the same tradeoffs except less often.
- benbristow 5y ago
  I'd be sacrificing a lot more resources to run a full Windows VM than just using Windows natively. And nevermind doing GPU accelerated tasks unless I want to faff around doing KVM stuff. Easier to just use Windows directly and WSL2 when I need it.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    You're sacrifing the exact same amount when using WSL2. The difference is that Windows is only useful for Photoshop and 3% of video games, while as a developer you're using Linux all day. You're not sacrificing any resources, in both cases you're running a full Linux and a full Windows. As far as GPU acceleration it's just as much of a pain inside of WSL2 than in a regular VM. Fwiw I only use Windows for Genshin Impact now. Photoshop works well enough usig Wine, the installer won't run but that's not an issue.
    - Tenoke 5y ago
      >You're sacrifing the exact same amount when using WSL2. Not really. For one, you are mostly fine running Linux terminal-only so it's really light and you are using less resources with Windows+WSL than Linux + full VM Windows. Second, if you need both Linux and Windows you typically need Windows for something heavy - e.g. a Game, Photoshop, whatever, so having Windows in the VM is typically more limiting.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Photoshop isn't heavy nowadays. Games are, yes, but the vast majority just work natively. Also you really miss a lot of Linux if you're running it terminal only without a GPU. Being unable to use the Jetbrains IDEs on Linux is the biggest one for a developer that's universal to any field. Also if you have to do something heavy, it's almost universally better to do it on Linux, ie, higher speed and better reliability.

hpcjoe 5y ago

It is more difficult, and no, WSL2/WSL is not linux. You see how much it is not linux when you try to do things like install a job scheduler, or a development environment (hint, try to use vscode gui in WSL2, watch the message you get). Real desktop linux has been, and is, a thing. I've been using Linux as my primary business desktop for more than 20 years. Yes, really. Now, in the industry I'm in, I am forced into a windows 10 environment. Which I do the best I can to push out of the way, so I can have a real machine. MobaXterm to provide a single root X window. XFCE4 for windowing, Plank for a dock. WSL2 (unfortunately) underneath, running an older RHEL (not my choice). Looks/feels mostly like a linux box. I use it for dev/testing/analytics/data science. File access is still as slow as sin, network performance is terrible. Windows apps are unstable, and will take down the machine from time to time. I am pushing for a linux laptop/desktop as I am far more productive in that desktop environment. Since most of our work is linux based, this makes sense.