5 ms·

You and Your Research (1986)

84 points by exolymph 5y ago

rememberlenny 5y ago
With remote work being so common, I regularly think about this section: Another trait, it took me a while to notice. I noticed the following facts about people who work with the door open or the door closed. I notice that if you have the door to your office closed, you get more work done today and tomorrow, and you are more productive than most. But 10 years later somehow you don't know quite know what problems are worth working on; all the hard work you do is sort of tangential in importance. He who works with the door open gets all kinds of interruptions, but he also occasionally gets clues as to what the world is and what might be important. Now I cannot prove the cause and effect sequence because you might say, ``The closed door is symbolic of a closed mind.'' I don't know. But I can say there is a pretty good correlation between those who work with the doors open and those who ultimately do important things, although people who work with doors closed often work harder. Somehow they seem to work on slightly the wrong thing - not much, but enough that they miss fame. Possibly the best essay in the Stripe book of Richard Hamming's essays/articles.
- jimsimmons 5y ago
  This makes sense when there was no internet. We are in the age of sensory overload. Back then you had to network to get the juice. Now the juice finds you
  - Hermitian909 5y ago
    You'd be surprised how little of the important research information makes it onto the internet in an easily digestible format. I work with battery researchers and there's a huge amount of collective knowledge about what papers are fake, which researchers are frauds, or can generally be trusted etc. that is not documented anywhere online but easily available through in-person conferences and coffee chats. The fact that the internet makes information widely available to everyone is exactly why this kind of critical information about who should and shouldn't be trusted never gets shared, it'd lead to immediate heated conflict that would consume the participants' lives. So (generally) no one shares these things. But without that knowledge you're wading through a sea of plausible looking garbage.
    - jimsimmons 5y ago
      Fair point. We really have done a terrible job at building online communities for professional discussion. Such a shame really
- honie 5y ago
  Maybe it was a different time and/or environment, but that couldn't be furthered from the truth according to my experience — even if I read that as a metaphorical door. Many of the people I have worked for/with who are amazing in objectively measurable ways, including fame, appear to balance their open- and closed- door times well. If you're just chasing after fame and want to work on what "everyone" thinks is important, then I don't disagree that keeping your door opened and getting "all kinds of interruptions" is likely the way to go. Also anecdotally, the "forever-open-door" people I have worked with who are always talking about "important problems" to solve; have huge networks; and are hopping from collaboration to collaboration working on a completely different domain of expertise every other year: they seem important to the community but, often on closer inspection, they don't actually produce much that is of substance. Edit: added "I don't disagree" for clarity.
  - PennRobotics 5y ago
    A wise professor I knew always scheduled a one-on-one research meeting directly at the end of office hours. If office hours was an hour long, students come and go for an hour with questions plus some overtime duration of extra clarifications. If office hours was four hours long, students come and go for four hours plus the same bit of overtime. With no bookend between office hours and everything else, students would beg for one more question and push the boundaries of the open-door policy. In their eyes, the instructor who slams the door in the student's face because, "It's two o'clock, I need to work," is impolite and insensitive. Putting an unavoidable, important meeting at the end of office hours suddenly put the burden of being impolite on the students. Suddenly, office hours became more efficient and students, more punctual. The professor was no longer so unbelievable cruel for ending the open-door session (gasp) on time. And, most importantly, research could get done at a normal hour.
    - anonymousDan 5y ago
      Interesting. In my experience the one time you are least likely to hear from students these days is during office hours!
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  It's probably a matter of moderation. Having the door closed all the time has a set of potential problems but so has having the open all the time as we have found working in open offices. I like interacting with people but I also need to be able to have peace from time to time. A door allows me to choose when I want to interact and when I need peace.
  - mnahkies 5y ago
    It's not a perfect solution but I use headphones as a symbolic door. Headphones on means sending me an email or slack that I can respond to in my own time is preferred, off means I'm fair game.
    - spaetzleesser 5y ago
      Headphones don't work for me. First, I don't like having them on for a long time and, second, I find people constantly moving in my peripheral vision very distracting and stressful. I can't focus in such an environment.
- itronitron 5y ago
  or the offices with closed doors are in higher traffic sections of the building
yesenadam 5y ago
Or watch him giving the talk in 1995 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1zDuOPkMSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1zDuOPkMSw It was the final lecture in his 31 lecture graduate engineering course "The Art of Doing Science and Engineering: Learning to Learn": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30
- vymague 5y ago
  I wonder why this is downvoted. They mostly cover the same thing iirc. I think he mentioned he has been giving the same lecture multiple times at different venues.
- teddyh 5y ago
  I think this version has better quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3msMuwqp-o&list=PLctkxgWNSR89bl7hTOS3F3wuoGj7id3Xy&index=32#t=22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3msMuwqp-o&list=PLctkxgWNSR...
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    Ohh thank you, yes. Seems like enhanced version of the playlist I linked to. The whole lecture series in this enhanced version: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLctkxgWNSR89bl7hTOS3F3wuoGj7id3Xy https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLctkxgWNSR89bl7hTOS3F...
vymague 5y ago
There are several versions of this. There's this html page. There's the book. And there's the videos. Which one is the best?
derbOac 5y ago
So Hamming says this: "And I can cite another person in the same way. I trust he isn't in the audience, i.e. a fellow named Clogston. I met him when I was working on a problem with John Pierce's group and I didn't think he had much. I asked my friends who had been with him at school, ``Was he like that in graduate school?'' ``Yes,'' they replied. Well I would have fired the fellow..." but then makes the sudden shift to conclude that "One success brought him confidence and courage... One of the characteristics of successful scientists is having courage." So on the one hand, he says he would have fired the fellow, but then also says that the fellow's success is due to him having courage. You could just as easily conclude his success was due to Hamming not being in charge. There are many environments where Hammings are put in charge. Very few things in life are pure luck or pure personal characteristics; they're a complex, chaotic mix of things in different proportions for different people and circumstances. We as a society need to get past this, and to recognize our own hypocrisies in how we approach others.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- travisjungroth 5y ago
  You really sliced up that quote to make Hamming look like a hypocrite. The missing middle: "Well I would have fired the fellow, but J. R. Pierce was smart and kept him on. Clogston finally did the Clogston cable. After that there was a steady stream of good ideas. One success brought him confidence and courage." Emphasis mine. I think this is self criticism on Hamming's part, not a dig at Clogston.
  - btilly 5y ago
    Thank you for pointing that out. I have no idea what motivation it takes to take someone's words, twist them to make the person look as bad as possible, and then try to unfairly smear them.
  - wott 5y ago
    It still makes little sense. He says that one success brought that guy courage. However, in the same "point", he says that it is courage which brings success. Applied to that case, it means that the guy already had courage that Hamming couldn't see but Pierce could see. Well, then it is not a success that brought him courage.
dang 5y ago
A perennial. Here are the threads with comments. They're not very large are they: You and Your Research – Richard Hamming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27451360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27451360 - June 2021 (1 comment) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25242617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25242617 - Nov 2020 (1 comment) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171820 - Aug 2020 (1 comment) You and Your Research – A talk by Richard W. Hamming [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23558974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23558974 - June 2020 (1 comment) You and Your Research by Richard Hamming (1995) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18505884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18505884 - Nov 2018 (10 comments) You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18014209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18014209 - Sept 2018 (10 comments) You and your research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14179317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14179317 - April 2017 (1 comment) You and Your Research, by Richard Hamming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10280198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10280198 - Sept 2015 (1 comment) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279585 - March 2015 (1 comment) Hamming, "You and Your Research" (1995) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7683711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7683711 - May 2014 (25 comments) Video of Hamming's "You and Your Research" (1995) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5567448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5567448 - April 2013 (1 comment) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4626349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4626349 - Oct 2012 (27 comments) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3142978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3142978 - Oct 2011 (7 comments) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=915515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=915515 - Nov 2009 (5 comments) Richard Hamming - You and your research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=852405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=852405 - Sept 2009 (1 comment) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=625857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=625857 - May 2009 (13 comments) You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542023 - April 2009 (4 comments) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=524856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=524856 - March 2009 (1 comment) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=229067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=229067 - June 2008 (7 comments) Why do so few scientists make significant contributions and so many are forgotten in the long run? - "You and Your Research" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=52337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=52337 - Sept 2007 (11 comments) You and Your (Great) Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13218 - April 2007 (6 comments)
glitchc 5y ago
This speech feels like it's from a world that doesn't exist anymore.
- fuzzfactor 5y ago
  >it's from a world that doesn't exist anymore. You're right, I was there before, during & after. Not at Bell Labs but I was already making progress individually using the approach he is talking about. As much as I could come up with on my own, I didn't know who Hamming was either. But every single word of it rings true when you look at it. This kind of thing is from a lost culture but regardless it can be found broadly useful in the 21st century.
Lammy 5y ago
"I vaguely noticed that I was not getting as good service as other people. So I set out to measure. You came in and you waited for your turn; I felt I was not getting a fair deal. I said to myself, ``Why? No Vice President at IBM said, `Give Hamming a bad time'. It is the secretaries at the bottom who are doing this. When a slot appears, they'll rush to find someone to slip in, but they go out and find somebody else. Now, why? I haven't mistreated them.'' Answer, I wasn't dressing the way they felt somebody in that situation should. It came down to just that - I wasn't dressing properly. I had to make the decision - was I going to assert my ego and dress the way I wanted to and have it steadily drain my effort from my professional life, or was I going to appear to conform better? I decided I would make an effort to appear to conform properly. The moment I did, I got much better service." Now imagine they're judging you for something you can't change, instead of for your clothing.
- zamfi 5y ago
  > Now imagine they're judging you for something you can't change, instead of for your clothing. Most people don’t need to imagine.
__skk__ 5y ago
I have all of my students read this and we have had many spirited discussions on the contents. A great motivator for someone at the beginning, middle and end of their careers! Here's my take: https://shrirang.karandikar.org/2019/10/27/you-and-your-research-richard-hamming-2/ https://shrirang.karandikar.org/2019/10/27/you-and-your-rese...
j7ake 5y ago
This is one of the greatest talks of modern times on careers. Thank goodness it has been given several times and recorded for posterity.

84 points by exolymph 5y ago

With remote work being so common, I regularly think about this section: Another trait, it took me a while to notice. I noticed the following facts about people who work with the door open or the door closed. I notice that if you have the door to your office closed, you get more work done today and tomorrow, and you are more productive than most. But 10 years later somehow you don't know quite know what problems are worth working on; all the hard work you do is sort of tangential in importance. He who works with the door open gets all kinds of interruptions, but he also occasionally gets clues as to what the world is and what might be important. Now I cannot prove the cause and effect sequence because you might say, ``The closed door is symbolic of a closed mind.'' I don't know. But I can say there is a pretty good correlation between those who work with the doors open and those who ultimately do important things, although people who work with doors closed often work harder. Somehow they seem to work on slightly the wrong thing - not much, but enough that they miss fame. Possibly the best essay in the Stripe book of Richard Hamming's essays/articles.

jimsimmons 5y ago
This makes sense when there was no internet. We are in the age of sensory overload. Back then you had to network to get the juice. Now the juice finds you
- Hermitian909 5y ago
  You'd be surprised how little of the important research information makes it onto the internet in an easily digestible format. I work with battery researchers and there's a huge amount of collective knowledge about what papers are fake, which researchers are frauds, or can generally be trusted etc. that is not documented anywhere online but easily available through in-person conferences and coffee chats. The fact that the internet makes information widely available to everyone is exactly why this kind of critical information about who should and shouldn't be trusted never gets shared, it'd lead to immediate heated conflict that would consume the participants' lives. So (generally) no one shares these things. But without that knowledge you're wading through a sea of plausible looking garbage.
  - jimsimmons 5y ago
    Fair point. We really have done a terrible job at building online communities for professional discussion. Such a shame really
honie 5y ago
Maybe it was a different time and/or environment, but that couldn't be furthered from the truth according to my experience — even if I read that as a metaphorical door. Many of the people I have worked for/with who are amazing in objectively measurable ways, including fame, appear to balance their open- and closed- door times well. If you're just chasing after fame and want to work on what "everyone" thinks is important, then I don't disagree that keeping your door opened and getting "all kinds of interruptions" is likely the way to go. Also anecdotally, the "forever-open-door" people I have worked with who are always talking about "important problems" to solve; have huge networks; and are hopping from collaboration to collaboration working on a completely different domain of expertise every other year: they seem important to the community but, often on closer inspection, they don't actually produce much that is of substance. Edit: added "I don't disagree" for clarity.
- PennRobotics 5y ago
  A wise professor I knew always scheduled a one-on-one research meeting directly at the end of office hours. If office hours was an hour long, students come and go for an hour with questions plus some overtime duration of extra clarifications. If office hours was four hours long, students come and go for four hours plus the same bit of overtime. With no bookend between office hours and everything else, students would beg for one more question and push the boundaries of the open-door policy. In their eyes, the instructor who slams the door in the student's face because, "It's two o'clock, I need to work," is impolite and insensitive. Putting an unavoidable, important meeting at the end of office hours suddenly put the burden of being impolite on the students. Suddenly, office hours became more efficient and students, more punctual. The professor was no longer so unbelievable cruel for ending the open-door session (gasp) on time. And, most importantly, research could get done at a normal hour.
  - anonymousDan 5y ago
    Interesting. In my experience the one time you are least likely to hear from students these days is during office hours!
spaetzleesser 5y ago
It's probably a matter of moderation. Having the door closed all the time has a set of potential problems but so has having the open all the time as we have found working in open offices. I like interacting with people but I also need to be able to have peace from time to time. A door allows me to choose when I want to interact and when I need peace.
- mnahkies 5y ago
  It's not a perfect solution but I use headphones as a symbolic door. Headphones on means sending me an email or slack that I can respond to in my own time is preferred, off means I'm fair game.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    Headphones don't work for me. First, I don't like having them on for a long time and, second, I find people constantly moving in my peripheral vision very distracting and stressful. I can't focus in such an environment.
itronitron 5y ago
or the offices with closed doors are in higher traffic sections of the building

yesenadam 5y ago

Or watch him giving the talk in 1995 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1zDuOPkMSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1zDuOPkMSw It was the final lecture in his 31 lecture graduate engineering course "The Art of Doing Science and Engineering: Learning to Learn": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30

vymague 5y ago
I wonder why this is downvoted. They mostly cover the same thing iirc. I think he mentioned he has been giving the same lecture multiple times at different venues.
teddyh 5y ago
I think this version has better quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3msMuwqp-o&list=PLctkxgWNSR89bl7hTOS3F3wuoGj7id3Xy&index=32#t=22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3msMuwqp-o&list=PLctkxgWNSR...
- yesenadam 5y ago
  Ohh thank you, yes. Seems like enhanced version of the playlist I linked to. The whole lecture series in this enhanced version: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLctkxgWNSR89bl7hTOS3F3wuoGj7id3Xy https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLctkxgWNSR89bl7hTOS3F...

vymague 5y ago

There are several versions of this. There's this html page. There's the book. And there's the videos. Which one is the best?

derbOac 5y ago

So Hamming says this: "And I can cite another person in the same way. I trust he isn't in the audience, i.e. a fellow named Clogston. I met him when I was working on a problem with John Pierce's group and I didn't think he had much. I asked my friends who had been with him at school, ``Was he like that in graduate school?'' ``Yes,'' they replied. Well I would have fired the fellow..." but then makes the sudden shift to conclude that "One success brought him confidence and courage... One of the characteristics of successful scientists is having courage." So on the one hand, he says he would have fired the fellow, but then also says that the fellow's success is due to him having courage. You could just as easily conclude his success was due to Hamming not being in charge. There are many environments where Hammings are put in charge. Very few things in life are pure luck or pure personal characteristics; they're a complex, chaotic mix of things in different proportions for different people and circumstances. We as a society need to get past this, and to recognize our own hypocrisies in how we approach others.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
travisjungroth 5y ago
You really sliced up that quote to make Hamming look like a hypocrite. The missing middle: "Well I would have fired the fellow, but J. R. Pierce was smart and kept him on. Clogston finally did the Clogston cable. After that there was a steady stream of good ideas. One success brought him confidence and courage." Emphasis mine. I think this is self criticism on Hamming's part, not a dig at Clogston.
- btilly 5y ago
  Thank you for pointing that out. I have no idea what motivation it takes to take someone's words, twist them to make the person look as bad as possible, and then try to unfairly smear them.
- wott 5y ago
  It still makes little sense. He says that one success brought that guy courage. However, in the same "point", he says that it is courage which brings success. Applied to that case, it means that the guy already had courage that Hamming couldn't see but Pierce could see. Well, then it is not a success that brought him courage.

dang 5y ago

A perennial. Here are the threads with comments. They're not very large are they: You and Your Research – Richard Hamming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27451360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27451360 - June 2021 (1 comment) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25242617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25242617 - Nov 2020 (1 comment) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171820 - Aug 2020 (1 comment) You and Your Research – A talk by Richard W. Hamming [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23558974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23558974 - June 2020 (1 comment) You and Your Research by Richard Hamming (1995) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18505884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18505884 - Nov 2018 (10 comments) You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18014209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18014209 - Sept 2018 (10 comments) You and your research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14179317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14179317 - April 2017 (1 comment) You and Your Research, by Richard Hamming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10280198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10280198 - Sept 2015 (1 comment) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279585 - March 2015 (1 comment) Hamming, "You and Your Research" (1995) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7683711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7683711 - May 2014 (25 comments) Video of Hamming's "You and Your Research" (1995) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5567448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5567448 - April 2013 (1 comment) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4626349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4626349 - Oct 2012 (27 comments) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3142978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3142978 - Oct 2011 (7 comments) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=915515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=915515 - Nov 2009 (5 comments) Richard Hamming - You and your research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=852405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=852405 - Sept 2009 (1 comment) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=625857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=625857 - May 2009 (13 comments) You and Your Research (1986) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542023 - April 2009 (4 comments) You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=524856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=524856 - March 2009 (1 comment) Richard Hamming: You and Your Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=229067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=229067 - June 2008 (7 comments) Why do so few scientists make significant contributions and so many are forgotten in the long run? - "You and Your Research" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=52337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=52337 - Sept 2007 (11 comments) You and Your (Great) Research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13218 - April 2007 (6 comments)

glitchc 5y ago

This speech feels like it's from a world that doesn't exist anymore.

fuzzfactor 5y ago
>it's from a world that doesn't exist anymore. You're right, I was there before, during & after. Not at Bell Labs but I was already making progress individually using the approach he is talking about. As much as I could come up with on my own, I didn't know who Hamming was either. But every single word of it rings true when you look at it. This kind of thing is from a lost culture but regardless it can be found broadly useful in the 21st century.

Lammy 5y ago

"I vaguely noticed that I was not getting as good service as other people. So I set out to measure. You came in and you waited for your turn; I felt I was not getting a fair deal. I said to myself, ``Why? No Vice President at IBM said, `Give Hamming a bad time'. It is the secretaries at the bottom who are doing this. When a slot appears, they'll rush to find someone to slip in, but they go out and find somebody else. Now, why? I haven't mistreated them.'' Answer, I wasn't dressing the way they felt somebody in that situation should. It came down to just that - I wasn't dressing properly. I had to make the decision - was I going to assert my ego and dress the way I wanted to and have it steadily drain my effort from my professional life, or was I going to appear to conform better? I decided I would make an effort to appear to conform properly. The moment I did, I got much better service." Now imagine they're judging you for something you can't change, instead of for your clothing.

zamfi 5y ago
> Now imagine they're judging you for something you can't change, instead of for your clothing. Most people don’t need to imagine.

__skk__ 5y ago

I have all of my students read this and we have had many spirited discussions on the contents. A great motivator for someone at the beginning, middle and end of their careers! Here's my take: https://shrirang.karandikar.org/2019/10/27/you-and-your-research-richard-hamming-2/ https://shrirang.karandikar.org/2019/10/27/you-and-your-rese...

j7ake 5y ago

This is one of the greatest talks of modern times on careers. Thank goodness it has been given several times and recorded for posterity.