5 ms·

Isn't everything that comes out of the government in the last few years, regarless of Labour or Conservative rule? Same agenda, different face.

MattBearman 15y ago
That's how I felt in the last election: Which middle-class twat do I vote for...
- djm 15y ago
  I know what you're feeling. I have never exercised my right to vote in a general election for the simple reason that, since I have been old enough to vote, the mainstream political parties have all been close to the center idealogically. I didn't see any point in using my vote. If I ever do it will probably be a tactical vote to try and prevent an extremist party (right or left) from gaining traction.
omh 15y ago
Our government pretended to listen to us while it decided with business, behind closed doors, what law to pass. Then it ignored what the public said. Then it passed the bill at the very last minute, without any real debate, and without even pretending that most MPs had read it. But the most worrying thing is that nobody thinks this is unusual. Apparently this is just the way things have to be.
wladimir 15y ago
Same agenda, different face That seems to be the common pattern in democracies these days. You either vote the devil you know or the other devil you know... And if they do promise change it's forgotten as soon as the election is over.
- nodata 15y ago
  Seems to be common in two-party democracies anyway. I say scrap political parties, it's not like they stick to their roots or make sense anyway. Edit: by two-party democracies I mean democracies where there is only a real choice between the two main parties, and these two main parties pretty much never change.
  - omh 15y ago
    Seems to be common in two-party democracies anyway The UK has three parties, in fact we have a coalition government (albeit perhaps only technically)
    - arethuza 15y ago
      The UK has 16 political parties represented at national or international levels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_th...
  - nate_meurer 15y ago
    This is common in all styles of democracy, parliamentary or two-party. Remember, worst system of government possible, except all the others.
    - nodata 15y ago
      Really? I think a no-party system would be a better style of government.
      - pointyhat 15y ago
        I always thought this. Sort of like a Star Trek "council" of elected members instead.
  - wladimir 15y ago
    It might be somewhat better with multi-party democracies, instead of two pretty much equal options you have 3 or more... I think Iceland's experiment in (somewhat more) direct democracy is very interesting.
- djm 15y ago
  if they do promise change it's forgotten as soon as the election is over I largely agree with your sentiment but I think it's important to consider that with our current government it is not reasonable that we should expect them to adhere to election manifesto promises. We have a coalition government because no single party was elected with a majority vote. The government results from a compromise between the two parties and thus their election manifestos should be considered void. It's because of this that I feel a little sorry for Nick Clegg over the student tuition thing - the public have held him accountable for a promise that should be considered void since he wasn't elected.
  - arethuza 15y ago
    Treating as void the election manifestos of coalition parties could be quite interesting given the Salisbuty Convention which limits the extent to which the House of Lords will oppose legislation that was in a manifesto. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention
    - djm 15y ago
      Agreed! I was aware of the salisbury convention but hadn't really given any thought to how it might come in to play with coalition governments. Thinking through it, I guess the logical expectation is that the HoL will have bigger teeth under a coalition. That is interesting in itself because the government is currently looking at another round of HoL reform. By the way, if your interested in all this check out channel 81 on freeview. They seem to be replaying a documentary on the history of HoL reform every few days at the moment.
  - pointyhat 15y ago
    I think that is down to the way the votes are counted which is, statistically speaking, bollocks. The "majority" should simply be the most votes retained for a party across the entire voting populous, rather than divided up into political wards and with silly rules over the top. It's intentionally broken at the moment to favour the top two parties and always has been. Alternative vote is the same turd with a different jacket on. There should be no possibility for a coalition.

MattBearman 15y ago

That's how I felt in the last election: Which middle-class twat do I vote for...

djm 15y ago
I know what you're feeling. I have never exercised my right to vote in a general election for the simple reason that, since I have been old enough to vote, the mainstream political parties have all been close to the center idealogically. I didn't see any point in using my vote. If I ever do it will probably be a tactical vote to try and prevent an extremist party (right or left) from gaining traction.

omh 15y ago

Our government pretended to listen to us while it decided with business, behind closed doors, what law to pass. Then it ignored what the public said. Then it passed the bill at the very last minute, without any real debate, and without even pretending that most MPs had read it. But the most worrying thing is that nobody thinks this is unusual. Apparently this is just the way things have to be.

wladimir 15y ago

Same agenda, different face That seems to be the common pattern in democracies these days. You either vote the devil you know or the other devil you know... And if they do promise change it's forgotten as soon as the election is over.

nodata 15y ago
Seems to be common in two-party democracies anyway. I say scrap political parties, it's not like they stick to their roots or make sense anyway. Edit: by two-party democracies I mean democracies where there is only a real choice between the two main parties, and these two main parties pretty much never change.
- omh 15y ago
  Seems to be common in two-party democracies anyway The UK has three parties, in fact we have a coalition government (albeit perhaps only technically)
  - arethuza 15y ago
    The UK has 16 political parties represented at national or international levels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_th...
- nate_meurer 15y ago
  This is common in all styles of democracy, parliamentary or two-party. Remember, worst system of government possible, except all the others.
  - nodata 15y ago
    Really? I think a no-party system would be a better style of government.
    - pointyhat 15y ago
      I always thought this. Sort of like a Star Trek "council" of elected members instead.
- wladimir 15y ago
  It might be somewhat better with multi-party democracies, instead of two pretty much equal options you have 3 or more... I think Iceland's experiment in (somewhat more) direct democracy is very interesting.
djm 15y ago
if they do promise change it's forgotten as soon as the election is over I largely agree with your sentiment but I think it's important to consider that with our current government it is not reasonable that we should expect them to adhere to election manifesto promises. We have a coalition government because no single party was elected with a majority vote. The government results from a compromise between the two parties and thus their election manifestos should be considered void. It's because of this that I feel a little sorry for Nick Clegg over the student tuition thing - the public have held him accountable for a promise that should be considered void since he wasn't elected.
- arethuza 15y ago
  Treating as void the election manifestos of coalition parties could be quite interesting given the Salisbuty Convention which limits the extent to which the House of Lords will oppose legislation that was in a manifesto. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention
  - djm 15y ago
    Agreed! I was aware of the salisbury convention but hadn't really given any thought to how it might come in to play with coalition governments. Thinking through it, I guess the logical expectation is that the HoL will have bigger teeth under a coalition. That is interesting in itself because the government is currently looking at another round of HoL reform. By the way, if your interested in all this check out channel 81 on freeview. They seem to be replaying a documentary on the history of HoL reform every few days at the moment.
- pointyhat 15y ago
  I think that is down to the way the votes are counted which is, statistically speaking, bollocks. The "majority" should simply be the most votes retained for a party across the entire voting populous, rather than divided up into political wards and with silly rules over the top. It's intentionally broken at the moment to favour the top two parties and always has been. Alternative vote is the same turd with a different jacket on. There should be no possibility for a coalition.